The "New" Mountaineers?

[wayne]

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FszuMzKPz-4

 

I dont know if you have played at the new club house yet, but it is cool. An indoor, an outdoor and the above video is @ one of new their drytool walls. They are looking to do more aggressive classes, and asked me to maybe help teach it.I believe I am excited about joining the club, it sounds like there is some fun new blood there. Yes they will still be choking out the easy crags at times, but the represent a part of the community. Is it possible we can all help make that better, rather than only dissing it?

The Dry tool wall site

There will be announcements on the place. I am encouraging them to do an open house.

[Tyson.g]

I took the mounties basic course in '99.

Yeah there is some silly stuff with the group and the crowd thing is something, but I really enjoyed the class and have always encouraged newbies to give them a try.

I think the infusion of new blood is great!

I also think that having someone like you get involved in their organizations is fantastic! Kudos man.

Yes, we can all do something to make things better and make all of our community factions more welcoming to one another. I think you are setting an example of this.

Good on you Wayne!

 

[genepires]

I like that non working santa claus came through at around the 2 min mark.

 

Right on for trying to make things better.

[rocketparrotlet]

Never mind.

Edited March 29, 2011 by rocketparrotlet

[Tyson.g]

I like that non working santa claus came through at around the 2 min mark.

 

Right on for trying to make things better.

 

I liked Santa too, that was awesome!

[AlpineK]

I don't know. I was an Intermediate Climbing Class drop out in '80. Re-qualifying to climb doesn't sound that attractive.

 

It is nice to see some changes though

[Edlinger]

What was the quote about putting lipstick on a pig? After talking to a few of my lowly belay slaves who are closet members, as of March 2011, the current reality is just the opposite. They are dying for new blood and simply aren't getting any and the ones they are getting are real hum dingers.

 

You've also gotta love the top rope on the 8 foot wall with crash pads!

[CascadeClimber]

I was "Invited to No Longer Participate" in the basic climbing course in the mid-90s. And I wear that like a Medal of Honor.

 

Back then the executive director told me, "With the number of courses we run it's inevitable that some people are going to die."

 

And if they are still conscripting Intermediate students to teach Basic students, then they still have at least one serious safety issue.

 

Aggressive, small courses or huge, McClimbing courses, if they don't have zero injuries as the expectation, they are still the same old Mountaineers.

Edited March 29, 2011 by CascadeClimber

[Layback]

It doesn't surprise me that there are a lot of negative comments. Years of ridiculous stupidity and militaristic attitudes take a lot of time to overcome in the public eye. Some of us joined and didn't like the way things were run and decided to do something about it. We could use the help. IMHO the club has come a long way from when I joined in '05 (and nearly quit because I refused to put my name on my helmet among other things).

 

Wayne - I think it would be rad if you joined. And for the record if you've got the experience you don't need to take a class.

[genepires]

 

Aggressive, small courses or huge, McClimbing courses, if they are done with zero injuries as the expectation, they are still the same old Mountaineers.

 

I don't get this. Why would you expect injuries for any teaching courses? Are you saying that they are not prepared for injuries or that injuries are required for learning?

[num1mc]

I took the Mountaineers courses in the seventies. Even back then there were attempts to reform the club, most of which failed.

 

In 1979, Bill Sumner was recruited and agreed to join the Climbing Committee. This was in an early attempt to alter the monolithic nature of the courses, and to bring many of the climbing techniques up to a more modern nature. His membership was vetoed by Howard Stainsbury because Bill was not a member of the club. Individuals of the Committee then offered to pay for Bill's membership. At this point Howard dug in his heals and stated that because Bill was not a graduate or student of any Mountaineers course, that his membership in the Climbing Committee was strictly verboten.

 

It was never clarified whether this stance by the Director was as per Club bylaws and statue, or merely the old guard acting like an intransigent ostrich with its head in the ground, and Bill tired of the BS.

[num1mc]

I also remember going out on the lower Niqually Glacier for crevasse rescue practice as a student in 1975 and as a first year Intermediate instructor in 1976, and we were using club supplied manilla ropes of about 1" diameter.

 

In 1977, Larry Penberthy either had or lost a contract to supply the US Army with shitty climbing ropes, and somehow the Mountaineers procured about a mile of crappy olive green MSR climbing rope, which was actually reprocessed yacht rope.

[Off_White]

That Sumner story is something, what a missed opportunity for the Mountaineers.

[CascadeClimber]

 

Aggressive, small courses or huge, McClimbing courses, if they are done with zero injuries as the expectation, they are still the same old Mountaineers.

 

I don't get this. Why would you expect injuries for any teaching courses? Are you saying that they are not prepared for injuries or that injuries are required for learning?

 

It was a typo, which I've corrected. What I am saying is that they will have more members die and get injured if that is the expectation. Indeed, they had two people die the year I was involved, and in both cases students has expressed misgivings about the trip continuing but were overruled by leaders. In my brief experience, students were twice overruled by leaders when expressing concerns about safety. In one case it nearly resulted in severe injuries. This sort of thing isn't an "accident", it's negligence.

[stevetimetravlr]

I also remember going out on the lower Niqually Glacier for crevasse rescue practice as a student in 1975 and as a first year Intermediate instructor in 1976, and we were using club supplied manilla ropes of about 1" diameter.

 

I was in the Mountaineers Basic/intermediate climbing courses in 75-77. Myself, and Phil Eckes from Bellevue, I was 15, he was 16. On the Nisqually Glacier training, as I recall we had regular climbing ropes,(goldline?) no manila at all as I recall. I came from a Boy Scout background where my troop was tops in the state at lashing togather monkey bridges, signal towers, etc and I knew the restrictions and limits of manila and no way would I lower into a crevasse on it and prusik back out. I vividly recall the experience, and the ropes were not an issue at all. Myself, I had personally bought one of the white MSR "kit" ropes that you took home and threw in the washer with a pack of RIT dye and so you got to choose your own color of rope. I chose red, and got a pink rope when it came out of the washer, great. Ed Peters and AJ Culver were two of the instructors at that time, great guys. AJ went on to be President of the Mountaineers in later years, and was also mayor of Issaquah for a few terms.

[num1mc]

Alright, maybe I'm a bit hazy. I remember them being horrible ropes. I was in the Basic in '75, and graduated from the Intermediate in '77. The other young climbers I remember were Alan and Ann Tarver, Roy Hackbarth, Paul Kremer, the late Bob (later Back-off Bob, and later still- Big wall Bob) Williams, Mike Balise, Sue McQueen, Betsy Visco (now there is a story!), Jon Carpenter and Russ Erickson.

 

My own MSR came pre-dyed!

[num1mc]

Ed Peters was really cool. He shared a house with Bob Lund. Bob Swanson was around then. AJ was nice, but also a little odd. Ken Small was also active in the club then, as was Steve Costie. Steve was a basic and later intermediate student with me, and he later became the long time Executive Director of the club, retiring recently.

[stevetimetravlr]

Man, those were the times. I remember climbing at the UW climbing rock with Jon Carpenter and Russ Erickson in later years. I didn't know Bob Williams took the Mounties course! He and I and Stan Holmes did a bunch of climbing before Bob moved onto Yosemite to become one of the last Stonemasters.

I think the Mountaineers for all the critiism they take, and all the jokes at their expense, they do some really good things by getting allot of people trained and exposed to the great outdoors. Sure, I almost got killed by a group of them when they set off a avy on Chair that came inches from killing me and my partners, but thats another story, and also why you don't climb under other people when at all possible, that was the lesson I learned from that one.

[stevetimetravlr]

Ed Peters was very cool is right! What a nice guy, a class act. I remember he had a girlfriend Ginger that was in the basic climbing course with us. Really good people.

AJ was a good guy also, loved to give me a hard time since he lived down the street from us.

Edited March 30, 2011 by stevetimetravlr

[Layback]

That sucks about Bill. How shortsighted of the club. Very sad.

 

I can guarantee you that wouldn't be the case with Wayne. Wayne has a few friends on the committee and although I don't know Wayne, I'd raise hell if he was somehow not allowed to pursue this. I hope it's okay to speak for the others but I know that Jim, Jessica, Geoff and I would have your back (among others).

[num1mc]

I remember Ginger. I was thinking her name was Ginger Baker, then I remembered that Ginger Baker was a he, and played in Cream.

 

I also remember Dick Beckenbaugh, Mike Nelson, Katy Kelso, Erhardt Weichert, Ed Vervoort and Janet Oliver.

 

Big Wall Bob was an interesting person. AJ denied him entrance to the Intermediate Climbing Course because of (accurately) perceived incompetence. That strengthened his resolve and obsession, and he went to Yosemite. As Peder Ourom told me, Bob backed off El Cap ten times before he climbed it. He went on the climb El Cap a bunch, including the fifth ascent of the PO, and the third ascent of Cal and Dave's route on the West Face. But by 22, he was all but out of climbing. He later got in some trouble with big time drug crooks in Mammoth, I believe. He later found god and then off 'ed himself, all before he was thirty.

 

I knew several people who were in the climbing committee, and I remember hearing about the clash of personalities and goals. The seventies were the start of PC, and the Climbing Committee was filled with baby boomers and their (wacky) ideas.

 

I don't know how much the Climbing Committee has changed, but if I look at the individuals I know who are still involved with climbing committees, I would say that the BS has not diminished at all. I'm sure they have many discussions about the best way to coil a rope, and anyone who disagrees with their way of rope coiling is either a hopeless radical, a crazy hieratic or inherently stubborn.

Edited March 29, 2011 by num1mc

[Quarryographer]

I'm pretty sure Yoder was also given the boot by the mounties back in the day. I guess they had issues with people surpassing their "leaders". Not exactly a healthy environment for progression of the sport imo...

[selkirk]

I don't know how much the Climbing Committee has changed, but if I look at the individuals I know who are still involved with climbing committees, I would say that the BS has not diminished at all. I'm sure they have many discussions about the best way to coil a rope, and anyone who disagrees with their way of rope coiling is either a hopeless radical, a crazy hieratic or inherently stubborn.

 

Actually there are quite a few young folks on the Climbing Committee now. Not to mention that the current "Old" guard, were really the inherently stubborn radicals and heretics from about 5 or 10 years ago.

 

I've been involved for about 9 years now, through Basic, and Intermediate, and teaching, and am happy to say there have been a lot of really positive changes recently like the way the Basic course is currently structured around small mostly independent groups, adding of more advanced seminars and courses (Big Wall take an annual week long trip to Yos, Water Ice just got back from a 10 day trip to Canmore, more advanced alpine climbing (5.9+), winter climbing, etc. etc.). Lots of good stuff going on. Heck, how many other groups do you know who are developing a dedicated indoor drytooling wall? I personally can't wait to get on it.

 

And Wayne, good on you for pitching in. Hope to run into you some time.

Cheers

Josh

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Is it possible we can all help make that better, rather than only dissing it?

 

Based on the responses to your query so far, sounds like a "no".

[selkirk]

I'm pretty sure Yoder was also given the boot by the mounties back in the day. I guess they had issues with people surpassing their "leaders". Not exactly a healthy environment for progression of the sport imo...

 

I love how people quote events from years ago as representative of the current club. I can't speak as to how it was back in the day, but the only folks I've seen or heard of being asked to leave were menaces who were a danger to themselves and anyone else in the party, or on the mountain.

 

As for out climbing the "leaders", most of the Mounties I climb with "out climb" the leaders, and it's never caused a problem that I've heard of