minx Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 OMFG Kimmo you are the most ridiculous illogical poster of all time. Hey Minx...you cant take my title and just hand it to someone else. the hell i can't. watch me. your title shall now be the most simpering whining candy ass poster of all time. all better now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 How about Chicken Pox? We always thought this was a rather innocuous rite of passage, but now I'm not so sure: be safe and get the shot? the nice thing about not giving the chicken pox vaccine is: a) if they get sick you probably already had it so are immune and can laugh as their candy-asses bitch and itch and b) by the time they develop shingles as old people you'll be dead anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Must be tough being a parent, reading all that graduate level material and still having time to hunt for Sasquatch. haven't you added a sasquatch to your ET line yet? Would make my hunt easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 and b) by the time they develop shingles as old people you'll be dead anyway yes, shingles was sooo prevalent before the vaccine, wasn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 OMFG Kimmo you are the most ridiculous illogical poster of all time. without substantiating your charge, you might just take the award yourself. so, in other words, care to expand on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 OMFG Kimmo you are the most ridiculous illogical poster of all time. welcome to the shit slingin sausage fest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 and b) by the time they develop shingles as old people you'll be dead anyway yes, shingles was sooo prevalent before the vaccine, wasn't it? Umm, well, yes. Most of the older folks I know ended up with Shingles at some point. Hell I know 40 year olds with Shingles. Of course way back in the day before vaccines lots of folks just kicked the bucket earlier from preventable diseases like the flu, thereby keeping rates for cancer, shingles, etc. down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 The fact that you cite Healy and Sears as opposed to the large scale clinical/epidemiological studies that have been conducted to address any connection between the MMR vaccine, or thimerosol, and autism suggests that you're not actually familiar with the science or the scientific literature. that's a heck of a leap there, for a rational robot such as yourself. I didn't realize citing a particular source meant in any way a particular allegiance to an ideology. wait, i forgot who i'm talking to. What specific large scale clinical/epidemiological studies are you basing your conclusions on, and which graduate level immunology text did you study? In what way does the combination of the two support your conclusion that the medical risks presented by vaccination outweigh the benefits? which conclusions? i might conclude from your above quote that you may have been immersed in grad school just a wee bit too long, my friend. but, since i have you on the line, tell me about some double blind studies on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Yesterday, editors at The Lancet officially retracted the British medical journal's 12-year-old study that they say incorrectly linked the combination Measles-Mumps-Rubella (MMR) vaccine to autism. The retraction of the 1998 study comes less than a week after the General Medical Council of the United Kingdom chastised the Dr. Andrew Wakefield and his co-authors for acting "dishonestly and irresponsibly" in doing his research for the study, which claimed that eight out of 12 children who received the MMR vaccine began showing symptoms of autism within days of getting the shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I'm curious: Jim, selkirk, ET, rob, minx, etal.... have you all had your pertussis boosters in the last 5 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 FYI, I'm a chiropractor and I strongly believe that everyone should receive all of their vaccinations. The notion that babies immune systems will be overtaxed is absurd. 1st the virus and microorganism particles are attenuated or just pieces of the whole...not living. 2nd the second a baby is born it is exposed to about a trillion or so times more organisms than the shots it is about to receive. Study after study has found no link to autism or any harmful side effect, especially when compared to the risk of gettting the illness the shots are for! If your kid gets a disease because you didn't vaccinate him/her you should be put in jail, especially if they wind up infecting others. As for the additives...there isn't enough a.)at once b.) over a period of time to do damage. One friggin' crappy packed meal, water bottle, or outside harmful toxin (like smog or polluted water/fish) will probably triple the neurotoxicity of whatever is in the shot. There are cases of harmful reactions, but given enough people, you'll find someone allergic to water. Bottom line. Don't be an asshole, vaccinate your kids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I'm curious: Jim, selkirk, ET, rob, minx, etal.... have you all had your pertussis boosters in the last 5 years? Does anyone? You keep bringing this up - not sure why. Children who get pertussis suffer and risk death. It's preventable - why not do so? The only boosters that I recall having are for tetanus. I stepped on a fucking nail when I was 10 or 11 and got one, then needed another for a puncture wound around 20-22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 The fact that you cite Healy and Sears as opposed to the large scale clinical/epidemiological studies that have been conducted to address any connection between the MMR vaccine, or thimerosol, and autism suggests that you're not actually familiar with the science or the scientific literature. that's a heck of a leap there, for a rational robot such as yourself. I didn't realize citing a particular source meant in any way a particular allegiance to an ideology. wait, i forgot who i'm talking to. What specific large scale clinical/epidemiological studies are you basing your conclusions on, and which graduate level immunology text did you study? In what way does the combination of the two support your conclusion that the medical risks presented by vaccination outweigh the benefits? which conclusions? i might conclude from your above quote that you may have been immersed in grad school just a wee bit too long, my friend. but, since i have you on the line, tell me about some double blind studies on the subject. No one conducts double blind studies with proven vaccines, since no institutional review board would approve a study in which parents were told that their children were being vaccinated against measles, etc when they weren't. What has been done are large scale studies that looked for a statistical association between vaccination with the MMR vaccine and autism, and exposure to thimerosol and autism. That is - they compared vaccinated and unvaccinated children and used statistical methods to determine whether or not children who had been exposed to either the MMR vaccine or thimerosol were at higher risk for developing autism. Here's a link to a large scale study that looked for a statistical association between the MMR vaccine and autism: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa021134 "We conducted a retrospective cohort study of all children born in Denmark from January 1991 through December 1998. The cohort was selected on the basis of data from the Danish Civil Registration System, which assigns a unique identification number to every live-born infant and new resident in Denmark. MMR-vaccination status was obtained from the Danish National Board of Health. Information on the children's autism status was obtained from the Danish Psychiatric Central Register, which contains information on all diagnoses received by patients in psychiatric hospitals and outpatient clinics in Denmark. We obtained information on potential confounders from the Danish Medical Birth Registry, the National Hospital Registry, and Statistics Denmark. Of the 537,303 children in the cohort (representing 2,129,864 person-years), 440,655 (82.0 percent) had received the MMR vaccine. We identified 316 children with a diagnosis of autistic disorder and 422 with a diagnosis of other autistic-spectrum disorders. After adjustment for potential confounders, the relative risk of autistic disorder in the group of vaccinated children, as compared with the unvaccinated group, was 0.92 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.68 to 1.24), and the relative risk of another autistic-spectrum disorder was 0.83 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.65 to 1.07). There was no association between the age at the time of vaccination, the time since vaccination, or the date of vaccination and the development of autistic disorder." Here's a link to a study that evaluated the prevalence of autism before and after thimerosol* was removed from virtually all childhood vaccines: http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/65/1/19 "Context Previous analyses of autism client data reported to the California Department of Developmental Services (DDS) have been interpreted as supporting the hypothesis that autism is caused by exposure to the preservative thimerosal, which contains ethylmercury. The exclusion of thimerosal from childhood vaccines in the United States was accelerated from 1999 to 2001. The Immunization Safety Review Committee of the Institute of Medicine has recommended surveillance of trends in autism as exposure to thimerosal during early childhood has decreased. Conclusions The DDS data do not show any recent decrease in autism in California despite the exclusion of more than trace levels of thimerosal from nearly all childhood vaccines. The DDS data do not support the hypothesis that exposure to thimerosal during childhood is a primary cause of autism." Here's another study on the same topic, that reached the same conclusion: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16818529?dopt=Abstract *Thimerosol = Ethyl mercury. Very different from methyl mercury. Kind of like the difference between ethanol and methanol. Some of the alarm over the mercury levels in vaccines was apparently generated by people who weren't aware of that. http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/topics/thiomersal/statement_jul2006/en/index.html There you go. Probably old news since you've been pouring over the literature when you haven't been immersed in the immunology text? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Children who get pertussis suffer and risk death. It's preventable And treatable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazyalpinist Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 The only boosters that I recall having are for tetanus. I stepped on a fucking nail when I was 10 or 11 and got one, then needed another for a puncture wound around 20-22. That statement showss you probably don't follow the recommendations by the CDC for the Td booster. (A timespan between boosters > ten years.) See this: http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/998140 /Re_Vaccine_Autism_Link_Deliber#Post998140 And I don't recall who brought up shingles, but the CDC only recommends the vaccine to the over 60 crowd. So don't see how that has anything to do with childhood vaccines. But I guess if you are so rabid about vaccines (side note, they have a vaccine for rabies too!) then you may have got your shingles vaccine earlier than your membership to AARP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 FYI, I'm a chiropractor and I strongly believe that everyone should receive all of their vaccinations. The notion that babies immune systems will be overtaxed is absurd. 1st the virus and microorganism particles are attenuated or just pieces of the whole...not living. 2nd the second a baby is born it is exposed to about a trillion or so times more organisms than the shots it is about to receive. Study after study has found no link to autism or any harmful side effect, especially when compared to the risk of gettting the illness the shots are for! If your kid gets a disease because you didn't vaccinate him/her you should be put in jail, especially if they wind up infecting others. As for the additives...there isn't enough a.)at once b.) over a period of time to do damage. One friggin' crappy packed meal, water bottle, or outside harmful toxin (like smog or polluted water/fish) will probably triple the neurotoxicity of whatever is in the shot. There are cases of harmful reactions, but given enough people, you'll find someone allergic to water. Bottom line. Don't be an asshole, vaccinate your kids Word. "Methylmercury is found in low levels in water, infant formula and breast milk. Although it is clear that large quantities of mercury can damage the nervous system, there is no evidence that the small quantities contained in water, infant formula and breast milk do. An infant who is exclusively breastfed will ingest more than twice the quantity of mercury that was ever contained in vaccines and fifteen times the quantity of mercury contained in the influenza vaccine" http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/hot-topics/thimerosal.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I'm curious: Jim, selkirk, ET, rob, minx, etal.... have you all had your pertussis boosters in the last 5 years? Does anyone? You keep bringing this up - not sure why. i bring it up because the pertussis vaccine loses efficacy after 5 years. meaning, if you have not had the vaccine in the last five years, you risk contagion and then passing it on to others. simple. which means that anyone who is stridently "pro-vaccine" should, logically, make sure their own vaccinations are up to date. kapisce? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Children who get pertussis suffer and risk death. It's preventable And treatable. Most of the time. http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/803186-overview Can't fathom people who freak-out about their children's exposure to sub-sub-trace levels of pesticides and quadruple wash their "organic" fruits and veggies and then leave their children exposed to infectious diseases that are infinitely more hazardous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I'm curious: Jim, selkirk, ET, rob, minx, etal.... have you all had your pertussis boosters in the last 5 years? Does anyone? You keep bringing this up - not sure why. i bring it up because the pertussis vaccine loses efficacy after 5 years. meaning, if you have not had the vaccine in the last five years, you risk contagion and then passing it on to others. simple. which means that anyone who is stridently "pro-vaccine" should, logically, make sure their own vaccinations are up to date. kapisce? You can be pro-vaccine - as in, accepting the overwhelming scientific consensus and the abundant empirical evidence that vaccines are safe and effective - without getting vaccinations against diseases that pose little or no risk to healthy adults. I'm a big fan of the smallpox vaccine, for example, but I haven't personally been vaccinated against it since it's been eradicated and only persists in a handful of BL4 laboratories. You make a fair point that it would be better if everyone got their boosters so they'd be less likely to transmit the disease to small children - but it doesn't follow that failure to do so undermines their belief in the safety and efficacy of vaccines in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Conway Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 kevbone was dropped repeatedly on his head as a child, clearly nothing can harm kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) You can be pro-vaccine - as in, accepting the overwhelming scientific consensus and the abundant empirical evidence that vaccines are safe and effective - without getting vaccinations against diseases that pose little or no risk to healthy adults. one can be "pro-vaccine" without getting ANY shots, but that's not the point. the point is that babies under 2 mo's are not vaccinated for pertussis, yet account for most deaths. in cali's 2010 "epidemic", the 10 deaths were all in kids under 6 mo's of age, with i believe 8 under 2 mo's (below vaccinatable age). furthermore, at least half of those kids contracted it from adults (i'd bet more?). meaning, according to your logic, those adults should be liable and subject to law-suit. again, have you had your pertussis booster? Edited January 21, 2011 by Kimmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 There are cases of harmful reactions, but given enough people, you'll find someone allergic to water. Bottom line. Don't be an asshole, vaccinate your kids if said kid is allergic, should vaccinations continue? and shouldn't you really say "don't be an ass-hole, make sure you have your boosters." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 i'd find out what my kid was allergic to, wait, try a single shot, and go from there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 i'd find out what my kid was allergic to, wait, try a single shot, and go from there a reasonable approach. although knowing if your kid is allergic to vaccine cultures is problematic until actually administering a vaccine. btw, have you had your booster for pertussis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 how bad does your kid react? if it's life threatening, then that's a pretty good excuse. a lot of times, kids outgrow allergies. I've had more than my share of immunizations. I work p/t at a lab sequencing dna of highly virulent diseases. is your kid allergic to eggs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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