Book help needed

[AlpineK]

There are some techniques for snow cave construction that minimize the amount of, "mining," necessary. Of course I don't have the latest FOTH so I may have missed something.

 

Digging a T shaped slot then filling in the front of the cave with blocks works much better than the old school tunneling technique.

[rmncwrtr]

I'll see what version of FOTH I have. I bought it in 2007 as a gift for hubby.

 

So how many people could you get into one? I read a little on the OES tragedy and they didn't have room for everyone. Is there some sort of formula to how big vs. size of party that an experienced alpine climber/mtn. rescuer would know vs. your climbs-but-not-as-much type climber. Or sometimes does it just depend on how much room you have to build based on slope/etc and you're kinda stuck?

[Hugh Conway]

Or sometimes does it just depend on how much room you have to build based on slope/etc and you're kinda stuck?

 

with the right drift on Hood, if you'd set out to dig one, which I can imagine groups doing, you could dig a quite large cave in not that much time. ~6 people or more.

 

at least enough room, and warm enough, for everyone to take off their cloths 8D

[wfinley]

Check out "Valentines Knight"... I have no idea who the author is. It was written in the mid-90s and is about a paramedic who falls in love with a Valdez ice climber. The ice climber of course has a date with some death route in Keystone Canyon. The late great Andy Embick makes an appearance and warns him that it's harder than "Wowie Zowie" but he goes for it anyways. The paramedic watches him solo into icicle hell... you can guess the rest!

[AlpineK]

Here's a good video

[video:youtube]

 

[rmncwrtr]

Thanks, Feck! :kisss: Okay, so this may be a really stupid question, but is a saw something you normally take alpine climbing?

[Hugh Conway]

No. Some people do take saws backcountry skiing/snowboarding for digging snowpits (avalanche type stuff)

[mattp]

That "T" slot technique looks OK, Mr. Feck, but more significant might be to pick a dig spot where the doorway will open to a slope such that whatever you throw out the front door will fall away without having to be moved by hand.

 

Pick a dig spot that is on a steep cornice face, and not at the bottom of that face, or otherwise has a drop below it.

[ilookeddown]

Thanks, Feck! :kisss: Okay, so this may be a really stupid question, but is a saw something you normally take alpine climbing?

 

I don’t think most people take saws like in the video. I also never thought of using my saw to assist in constructing a snow cave. Thanks Feck for the video. Looks much easier than the way I have done it in the past. Anyway here is one I use in the BC.

 

[rmncwrtr]

Thanks, all!

 

I have them digging a snowpit in the first book, but I don't think I went into how they did it, Hugh.

 

I appreciate the pics of your saw, ilookeddown. That would fit a little better into a pack then the one used in the video.

 

So is there any place on Hood where you couldn't/wouldn't build a snowcave? Would rather avoid that place from the beginning.

[AlpineK]

I should have commented on the hand saw. Sorry.

 

Yes you would use a saw like the one ilookeddown posted a picture of. People carry those for constructing avy pits.

 

Site selection is important. Pick a leeward slope and go over the site first with a probe pole to make sure snowpack depth is sufficient. Shoveling downhill is easier than shoveling uphill

 

If it isn't deep enough you'd have to dig and build a giant snow pile then dig into the pile to dig out the cave.

[Coldfinger]

Most folks bring a small shovel (link below) when either backcountry skiing (aka off-piste) in avalanche country (they'll also bring an avalanche beacon (not to be confused with a PLB) and maybe a probe) or winter camping (tent platforms, caves, etc.).

 

Some folks carry saws but not many, shovels can do most things a saw can and one can use a ski pole, ski or cord to cut snow when block testing avalanche conditions.

 

I mention this as I can't think of anyone who doesn't bundle this stuff.

 

Shovel:

http://www.backcountry.com/voile-xlm-shovel

 

Beacon:

http://www.backcountry.com/pieps-freeride-avalanche-beacon

 

PLB:

http://www.backcountry.com/acr-sarlink-view-406-personal-locator-beacon

 

Probe:

http://www.backcountry.com/black-diamond-quickdraw-guide-probe-300

Edited November 17, 2010 by Coldfinger

[G-spotter]

I should have commented on the hand saw. Sorry.

 

Yes you would use a saw like the one ilookeddown posted a picture of. People carry those for constructing avy pits.

 

Site selection is important. Pick a leeward slope and go over the site first with a probe pole to make sure snowpack depth is sufficient. Shoveling downhill is easier than shoveling uphill

 

If it isn't deep enough you'd have to dig and build a giant snow pile then dig into the pile to dig out the cave.

 

Or you could make an igloo or a quinzee

[rmncwrtr]

Just when I dive into the research, revisions on the book I turned in Sunday night arrive. As soon as I get those figured out, I'll have more questions here for this new story.

 

Thanks so much for all the posts, pics, links, videos and helps. The story gears have really been cranking with all this stuff! And it'll all be simmering while I go back to the other story.

[rmncwrtr]

A question about the use of the word "epic" which I've read many times on this forum. Would you still call it an "epic" if someone dies or does it then become a "tragedy"? Now that I've started the actual writing, I may need to kill someone off in this one.

[rmncwrtr]

Sorry, didn't mean to offend just wanted to get the right word. Part of what readers have liked about the series is the research climbers here have helped with. It's introduced them to mountain rescue and climbing something few have experienced themselves.

 

If anyone would like to help answer questions, send me a pm and I'll do this off-list. Thanks.

[Pete_H]

If it drives you nuts then don't read it bro

[fredrogers]

You joined the site 4 days ago and you're laying the newbie smack down? easy cowboy or girl.

[ivan]

If it drives you nuts then don't read it bro

indeed, seeing as how you've been online for 3 days, senor snow, or don't have the cajones to make the plea w/ yer main avatar!

 

"watchu read'n fore?" - waffle house waitress in alabama

[ivan]

 

i'm thinking the authors of "vertical limit" musta agree w/ you though

[YocumRidge]

indeed, seeing as how you've been online for 3 days, senor snow, or don't have the cajones to make the plea w/ yer main avatar!

 

"watchu read'n fore?" - waffle house waitress in alabama

 

Did not you guys figure it out yet? SummitChaser has reincarnated.

 

SC: nice video of ice climbing @Lillooet !

[billcoe]

Did not you guys figure it out yet? SummitChaser has reincarnated.

 

LOLOLOLOLOL!

 

BTW, Mr Snowchaser - if you don't like a thread, as noted by Pete H and others, one option is to move along. This creative process is how the world famous Jake Porter came to be. ie, someone with creativity thought him up and someone with less (more?) creativity borrowed him for a screen name. Good stuff.

[sobo]

Yeah, IS/SC, you should chill and get ejumakated before dissing on Mel like that. She's been around this here board for a fuquvalot longer than you have, and she's a very endearing sort. Plus, she's a cutie!

We :heart: Mel.

[sobo]

 

You, douchebag, still need to get your life figured out. Mel is no troll.

[Mentat]

When someone is killed it’s no longer an epic, it’s a giant F&*$ up, and the mistake usually wasn’t made when the person died. The Fates of many are sealed with small mistakes; it’s like a house of cards.

If someone is killed its often tragic if someone is a victim of poor leadership but otherwise most people have an intact sense of self preservation, and when working at personal limits one must be accepting of the risks. This engenders a bushido morality which is why you seldom hear the word tragedy to describe unfortunate consequences.

Everyone has their own definition of epic. Its personal but I use the fun scale (type I, II, and III) and use epic for those "adapt and overcome" situations.

 

Edited December 11, 2010 by Atomic Libido