Reconsider Columbus Day 2010

[kevbone]

 

[video:youtube]

[cfire]

Applying todays values to somebody from 500+ years ago

[rob]

I'm perfectly OK with giving Florida back to the natives. Or the Spanish. Whoever.

[AlpineK]

Applying todays values to somebody from 500+ years ago

 

With the exception of the 4th of July all other government recognized holidays are negotiable.

[kevbone]

Applying todays values to somebody from 500+ years ago

 

So in 500 years it will be ok to celebrate Hitler?

[ivan]

Applying todays values to somebody from 500+ years ago

 

So in 500 years it will be ok to celebrate Hitler?

hitler was already considered a villian by the vast majority of the world at the time of his death

 

a silly non-issue, mostly - the new and old worlds inevitably were going to collide - the collision was inevitably going to go badly for the americans - as the holiday stands, it's a fine opportunity for a history teacher to call attention to both sides - the columbian exchange wasn't all bad, at least some eye-talians caught themselves the clap as a result of it

[JayB]

Speaking of revising history, I heard a pretty interesting interview about that on NPR this morning. The interviewee was a history Prof who was making the case that drunks, prostitutes, and various other ne'er-do-wells played an important role in securing various rights and freedoms in practice.

 

An interesting side-note was his concession/argument that market processes helped this process along by making it profitable to undermine the status quo. Rich madams securing the right to own and dispose of property and Italian mobsters running gay bars were a couple of examples he tossed out there. All the more interesting considering the guy's gold-star leftist pedigree.

 

Haven't read it but it sounds interesting:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Renegade-History-United-States/dp/141657106X

[G-spotter]

Yes, since capitalism is a necessary precursor to communism, according to Marx.

[ivan]

The interviewee was a history Prof who was making the case that drunks, prostitutes, and various other ne'er-do-wells played an important role in securing various rights and freedoms in practice.

my fav hl mencken quote:

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."

[Crux]

my fav hl mencken quote:

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."

 

Had Mencken stated that oppressive laws are first aimed at scoundrels, while possessing the knowledge of history we have today, he would be speaking with an eloquent style, while at once acting the part of a muddle-minded pseudo-intellectual.

 

By the blood of millions of innocent people murdered by the practice of laws crafted and executed by scoundrels such as Christopher Columbus, we know that oppression more often begins as an act of evil against not a few, but the many.

[ivan]

hard to find any group of meat-puppets in the 15th century taht wasn't abusing the fuck out of everybody, including themselves - the spanish, in the example of columbus, were hardly singling out americans for abuse, just ask monty python!

[Nitrox]

hard to find any group of meat-puppets in the 15th century taht wasn't abusing the fuck out of everybody, including themselves - the spanish, in the example of columbus, were hardly singling out americans for abuse, just ask monty python!

 

Not too many Americans in the 15th century.

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

Fuck Columbus Day

[summitchaserCJB]

For those that didn't watch the video, here is a synopsis-

"We hate America!"

Lets call this what it is- reverse racism.

The guy discovered America for crap's sake. Give the guy some credit. My Gosh this country is fucked up.

Edited October 15, 2010 by summitchaserCJB

[KaskadskyjKozak]

The guy discovered America for crap's sake. Give the guy some credit. My Gosh this country is fucked up.

 

He sailed some ships. Big fucking deal.

[summitchaserCJB]

More than most of us will do, in terms of significance. Just sayin. I just think the video is BS. Lots of claims based on emotional ties to racism, slavery, ect that aren't necessarily connected to the truth.

 

...but something tells me kevbone knows this...

[kevbone]

For those that didn't watch the video, here is a synopsis-

"We hate America!"

Lets call this what it is- reverse racism.

The guy discovered America for crap's sake. Give the guy some credit. My Gosh this country is fucked up.

 

 

You are full of shit. The video did not say we hate America. It is simply exposing CC for what he was.

[kevbone]

The guy discovered America for crap's sake.

 

How is it that he discovered America when there were thousands of Indians standing on the beach waving him in?

[AlpineK]

I believe the humans who discovered North and South America primarily walked here from Siberia during the ice ages. The ice ages were long before Columbus conned the Spanish monarchy into giving him a boat.

[summitchaserCJB]

Alright, my bad. You're right. America never should have happened. Big mistake. Terrible country (all in sarcastic voice).

I mean, if you don't think Columbus should have discovered the new world FOR what was then "Western Society" it is as if you hate America, IMO, because you are wishing it away. Or you're an idealist who somehow wishes you could go back and change things. But if history teaches us anything it is that bad things almost always accompany any sort of positive change. Unless you think America is completely a waste...then I ask...why live here?

These are my thoughts, ignore them if you wish.

[ivan]

hard to find any group of meat-puppets in the 15th century taht wasn't abusing the fuck out of everybody, including themselves - the spanish, in the example of columbus, were hardly singling out americans for abuse, just ask monty python!

 

Not too many Americans in the 15th century.

 

10-100 million americans at the time he arrived, according to the babbling horde of historians that have attempted to augor a number

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas

[kevbone]

Alright, my bad. You're right. America never should have happened. Big mistake. Terrible country (all in sarcastic voice).

I mean, if you don't think Columbus should have discovered the new world FOR what was then "Western Society" it is as if you hate America, IMO, because you are wishing it away. Or you're an idealist who somehow wishes you could go back and change things. But if history teaches us anything it is that bad things almost always accompany any sort of positive change. Unless you think America is completely a waste...then I ask...why live here?

These are my thoughts, ignore them if you wish.

 

You sure twist the conversation around. Watch the video again. You will see that these people only want the truth to be told nothing else. They don’t want to have a national holiday honoring a person who committed atrocious acts of violence against indigenous people. That’s all. This has nothing to do whether he discovered America.

[olyclimber]

I just discovered America. SWEET ASS PLACE LETS PILLAGE THIS BITCH.

[ivan]

You sure twist the conversation around. Watch the video again. You will see that these people only want the truth to be told nothing else. They dont want to have a national holiday honoring a person who committed atrocious acts of violence against indigenous people. Thats all. This has nothing to do whether he discovered America.

betcha wouldn'ta been a fan of virginia's old lee-jackson-king holiday then either!

 

columbus day's about whatever you want it to be 8-ball - to me, it seems a fine excuse to have a day off and recollect that the dudes who built the country did so on the bones of the people who lived here first - shit, i think dave mathews did a song 'bout it n' everything!

[Nitrox]

hard to find any group of meat-puppets in the 15th century taht wasn't abusing the fuck out of everybody, including themselves - the spanish, in the example of columbus, were hardly singling out americans for abuse, just ask monty python!

 

Not too many Americans in the 15th century.

 

10-100 million americans at the time he arrived, according to the babbling horde of historians that have attempted to augor a number

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas

 

They weren't Americans and if Columbus didn't discover "America" then he certainly didn't encounter "Native Americans".

 

The video is lame and chock full of revisionist history. "Oh boohoohoo, Columbus wasn't nice so lets pretend he didn't change THE ENTIRE FUCKING WORLD".