Special Use Fees Increased - Denali and Rainier

[j_b]

a 150% increase in one year is what's gibberish, yet alone justifying it in the name of "info/help/infrastructure"

 

I don't know the park budget and I bet you don't either. Most of the climbing related expense is likely due to Denali anyway.

 

What's gibberish is denying that pay-to-play results from cutting government subsidies.

[tvashtarkatena]

It's what ya get with big government.

 

what's really rich is that "pay to play" (user fees) has become generalized in direct response to tax cuts advocated and won by the so-called "small government" (cough, cough) crowd that has been in charge for the last 30+ years. Do try to be consistent.

 

While giving props to the program at Denali the fact remains that, at its core, it is an unnecessary governmental endeavor. Calling for smaller government while decrying the cost/benefit ratio of a pay-to-play scheme that isn't needed to begin with is not inconsistent at all. Do we really need an expensive government enclave at 14,000 feet?

 

Unless you'd prefer draggin a sled through the tiaga for 2 weeks to add McKinley to your brag list, and camp in a poo garden (with the occasional body added for ambience), or, not climb the mountain at all, yes the enclave is needed. BTW, its not at 14000. Not even close.

 

Its also not that expensive an enclave, particularly considering the traffic that goes through it.

[denalidave]

It only took us 5 days to drag our sleds from sea level-ish (Wonder Lake) to the Muldrow. Course, they were only 250lbs each, so were were lucky enough to go "light and fast"...

[Jim]

Wow, thats hardy. But for the rest of us $1000 seems a bit too much. The $50 for Rainer seems reasonable.

 

I know folks who were climbing rangers on Denali and a couple on Rainer. It's not such a cush job and the pay stinks for the skills these folks have (in general). If there were no ranger services sure-as-shootin' someone would fall in a crevasse and their family would sue the NPS and then the screws would be tightened.

 

Especially up in Denali there's been a number of wackos throwing themselves at the peak like lemmings and then insisting on rescue because they have a tweaked wrist or are cold. Remember a few years back when those two chicks got pulled off by helicopter pretty high up and then on the ambulance ride in Anchorage they convinced the driver to stop at KFC - big emergency.

[Julian]

Peak fees (even increased ones) on Denali are sensible but should be for the West Buttress/West Rib only. An experienced alpinist who doesn't need NPS to babysit them shouldn't have to pay $1000 to climb the Cassin Ridge or Denali Diamond.

[denalidave]

Peak fees (even increased ones) on Denali are sensible but should be for the West Buttress/West Rib only. An experienced alpinist who doesn't need NPS to babysit them shouldn't have to pay $1000 to climb the Cassin Ridge or Denali Diamond.

This is a great idea but would seem hard to police... All of the sudden, everyone is "doing" those routes without the $1,000 fee. Who is going to police once the team(s) leave Talkeetna?

[wfinley]

Peak fees (even increased ones) on Denali are sensible but should be for the West Buttress/West Rib only. An experienced alpinist who doesn't need NPS to babysit them shouldn't have to pay $1000 to climb the Cassin Ridge or Denali Diamond.

 

Enough with the elitism. Statistically speaking people who climb harder routes are more likely to have accidents. The Cassin sees an average of 20 climbers a year - and for the past 3 years there have been accidents on the route. A Belgium climber died on it this past June, last June two climbers were rescued and in 2008 Yamada and Inoue disappeared on the route.

 

The whole argument against fees is that they unfairly target climbers. Advocating that some climbers pay and others don't is ridiculous.

[ScaredSilly]

Just to keep folks on track $0 of the fees are for rescue related incidents. For instance, the Lama helicopter on Denali is paid for out of other funding.

 

However, the fees are being used to fund programs to prevent rescues. Which is what started the programs in the first place. The decision was made to have a presence on the mountain as well as greater contact with climbers before they even arrive in Alaska.

 

Take the Muir, Emmons and 14k camps which is where probably 95% of all climbs on Denali and Rainier take place. Having a ranger presence - as in one who actually walks around and makes contact with visitors - gives them a chance to hopefully prevent more issues from arising. A worthy idea - to a degree.

 

So, in many ways the fees are "preventative" rescue insurance that climbers are all paying for because the NPS can not require rescue insurance. Which is what they really should do and require it of all park users while pulling their operations off the mountain except for a patrol or two mid season like would be done within any park.

 

Now here is the rub - many of us on CC have no need for such contacts high on the hill as most have their act together (most of the time). Give us a weather report and perhaps some route condition info and we are happy campers. This info is no different than someone who is going to hike the Wonderland Trail. For me the blog has been one of the most beneficial parts of the Rainier program.

 

So part of what has happened is that the burden has shifted to where the need is perceived/desired for the vast majority. So those of us who do not need their presence are paying for services we do not want. At least Rainier is park wide. For Denali, why is it for just Foraker and Denali and not park wide? Last time I was in the park the ranger literately said "Given the route you are doing there is not much I can say - do want some blue bags and look at the route photos?" Yet we paid the same as everyone else.

 

However, now that the programs are in place the NPS really needs to look at their programs overall as to what services they are providing and what are the needs. I do not believe they are doing that fully. For instance, from: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/09/12/1337950/climbers-decry-fee-hike.html#ixzz0zWhDMK8V

 

"That isn’t true, Uberuaga said. After climbing ranger Sam Wick fell into a crevasse July 1, 2009, while patrolling the mountain on skis, the park began analyzing the program and how well its rangers were trained, Uberuaga said.

 

They discovered that the rangers lacked some training and that increasing climbing fees could pay for that training. The park already had hired two permanent climbing rangers to work six months per year starting in 2010."

 

While I do not know the particulars of this incident - it does give me pause as to why Rainier hires other rangers and trains them without passing those costs on to say those getting a hiking permit. Or why are they are hiring climbing rangers who need to be trained in the first place. I am all for advancement in the work force and for training. But there is a thin line of who should paying for it.

 

 

[denalidave]

Peak fees (even increased ones) on Denali are sensible but should be for the West Buttress/West Rib only. An experienced alpinist who doesn't need NPS to babysit them shouldn't have to pay $1000 to climb the Cassin Ridge or Denali Diamond.

 

Enough with the elitism. Statistically speaking people who climb harder routes are more likely to have accidents. The Cassin sees an average of 20 climbers a year - and for the past 3 years there have been accidents on the route. A Belgium climber died on it this past June, last June two climbers were rescued and in 2008 Yamada and Inoue disappeared on the route.

 

The whole argument against fees is that they unfairly target climbers. Advocating that some climbers pay and others don't is ridiculous.

Good point...

[Weekend_Climberz]

What are they gonna do if I don't pay, arrest me? I'm glad they passed that law where you can carry guns in the NP's.

[tvashtarkatena]

the only weapon you need on Denali is your poo bucket

[ivan]

What are they gonna do if I don't pay, arrest me? I'm glad they passed that law where you can carry guns in the NP's.

seem to recall they'll start by not giving you your gas at the landing strip, if'n you're landing on the kahiltna

[AlpineK]

What are they gonna do if I don't pay, arrest me? I'm glad they passed that law where you can carry guns in the NP's.

seem to recall they'll start by not giving you your gas at the landing strip, if'n you're landing on the kahiltna

 

I'm pretty sure the companies providing air service into Denali want to continue providing flights and thus making money. The NPS provides the permits the air service needs to operate, and can revoke permits. Air companies are not going to risk loosing their permit.

 

Now if you walked all the way in you might be able to get away with it. Then again maybe not.