Trusting gear

[mzvarner]

So a little over a year ago i fell and had gear ripp and was pretty messed up (ya im the tool from spokane...now we can move on past that part). Im just now getting over my fear falling again (on bolts) how can i push my mind into being comfortable on gear. I went to the Royal columns at Tieton and had to down climb a (the book says dirty) 5.7 around a roof. I need advice, I know what "good gear" is ( to bad i had to learn the hard way) But I can not get myself to fall on it.

 

HELP!

[Maxtrax]

Aid climb. A lot.

 

Go somewhere like Nevermind at exit 38 or World Wall at exit 32 where you can take some bigger sport falls safely.

 

Climb some nice easy granite trad routes with easy gear - Apron and Smoke Bluffs or L-town come to mind.

[billcoe]

I'd imagine that "The Rock Warriors Way" book by Arno Ilgner would be of great assistance to you.

 

Good luck!

[fenderfour]

Aid climb x2 , an do a lot of exposed scrambling.

[LostCamKenny]

i hear ya... having gear pull ain't fun. meself, i have this to prove my experience with the topic.

i was aiding, however, and shifted my weight wrong in my etriers, so i bet my experience with gear ripping out is a bit different from yours. still...

 

i just started to get back out on the rock about a month ago and maybe its that i have been aiding a lot, but for me trusting the gear is something that i just stopped thinking about. once i place it i forget about it until it is time to place a another piece. either the gear is gonna work or it isn't. 99 times out of 100 it is going to work (hopefully more than that), but worrying about it is a mental block that you have to overcome. [to quote tibetan philosophy (and 7yrs in tibet), "if a problem can be fixed, then there is no use worrying about it. if it can't be fixed, then worrying will do no good"] its all in your head, is what i figured out. place the gear, clip it, and climb on. if it is that scary a thing for you then just go back to basics - climb the stuff waaaaaaaaaaaay below your level and work back up to where you were when you fell. at some point you are going to notice that you are much stronger, more aware, and more confident than you were before your fall, and thus you will become a better climber. keep at it - don't let it beat ya!

 

 

[Quarryographer]

I've heard the aid schpeel many times in the past, It probably is sound advice. Myself I've never had the "time to waste" at a crag yet... I believe falling on gear is the only way to really trust gear, such an awful paradox! I'm actually one of the few who thought you were on the right track before the unfortunate incident. Though your methods could have been more refined. If you plan to fall on gear I would add as many fail-safes as humanly possible... ie massively sewn up crack just below the "test piece" or a silly looking uber slack top-rope grigried off to a tree in the background. I'm sure a smart chap like yourself can find a way to over-engineer such an endeavor.

And I'm sorry to hear about the incident. Gear pulling is one of my biggest nightmares. Fortunately for me it's never happened on the sharp end.

Good luck to you sir..

[selkirk]

Also IMHO, don't forget that at Tieton the climbs tend to be stiff for the grade. It seems like the even out with other local areas around low to mid 10's. The only other place that might have comparable ratings in the lower grades is Index.

 

And... what they said

Mileage, and focus on dealing with the fear.

For me I used to spend a lot of time analyzing the fear I was feeling and trying to seperate out the "good" fear that's keeping me from doing stupid dangerous things like running it out on bad gear, from the "bad" fear that's holding me back for no good reason.

 

Good luck

 

 

[mzvarner]

GREAT ADVICE! I have thought about doign the aiding thing, but just have not had "the time to waste" but now that summer is here, i have tons of time. Thanks again to you all.

[jeff donnelly]

Fortunately for me it's never happened on the sharp end.

so how do you know to trust your gear then?

[kevbone]

Aid climb. A lot.

 

 

Best advice.

[tomtom]

Never trust your gear. If you don't fall, you don't have to.

[spotly]

Just curious - where'd you fall? Any damage other than to the nerves?

 

I think I'd have to agree with the aid advice and with getting in some exposed scrambling to get your head back into it. Then start back into something well below your grade or that you've dialed in....like Open Book at Minne.

[Quarryographer]

Due to either sheer luck, or the graces from beyond. Every piece I've fallen on has held. Though I still sometimes visualize them ripping out as I fly by...

[spiderman]

Aid climb City Park a few times and you'll know what will and won't hold a fall. City Park is VERY SAFE! Just be sure to bring tons of small stoppers and biners. Also...practice all your initial "gear" climbs on the solid splitters of Index, L-worth, and Squamish. Once you get an idea of what does and doesn't hold, you can easily take your skills to the harder to protect, not as uniform, blocky cracks of Tieton. I have this old VHS video of Don Reid's that I watch before I do any aid climbing adventures, which is pretty rare. I don't know what the video is called because it's a bootleg copy from an old friend, but I bet you can find it online if you try. Watching this thing once every few years before I do a wall really helps me dial my sh#* in.

 

Get good at placing the gear and you'll trust it every time, also, it will hold 99% of the time. As long as the rock quality is solid anyway.

[Buckaroo]

This is a tough question. It depends if you want to train to "climb to fall". It's like sport climbing where you climb past your limit and just try the move even if you think you will fall. Compared to an alpine climb with crappy gear where you don't try the move if you don't think you can make it. Do you feel out the move and downclimb if it doesn't feel right or do you just try until you fall?

 

It's personal preference, me I don't usually climb to fall unless it's a sport route. I always try to make sure I can make the move so I fall very rarely on gear. Maybe because I alpine so much, either solo or marginal gear I don't want to practice to fall.

 

Maybe I don't get as high of numbers as I could this way but numbers aren't everything.

 

It is good though to jump off on some gear once in awhile, set 2 bomber pieces (not equalized but close), use locker beaners if you'd like, and just jump off. That way you will climb better in your range because you won't be as gripped worrying about the gear.

 

Learning to place good gear and learning what will hold is another aspect of this whole question. And it's already been said, aid is the quickest way to learn. You can learn by leading a lot of gear routes but it's a slower learning process.

 

If I'm coming off the couch having not placed gear in a while I will run a couple laps on City Park just to brush up.

[LostCamKenny]

It is good though to jump off on some gear once in awhile, set 2 bomber pieces (not equalized but close), use locker beaners if you'd like, and just jump off. That way you will climb better in your range because you won't be as gripped worrying about the gear.

while i understand yer reasoning for doing this and agree that it probably will give you more confidence while doing tougher moves, it sounds like taking an unnecessary risk, imho.

 

Learning to place good gear and learning what will hold is another aspect of this whole question. And it's already been said, aid is the quickest way to learn. You can learn by leading a lot of gear routes but it's a slower learning process.

i agree with this 100%. it not enough to know how to just place gear, but to be able to place good gear. placing gear is more than just the gear itself - its about the rock quality, too, and the orientation of the piece... good gear you do not need to worry about trusting.

[rob]

It is good though to jump off on some gear once in awhile, set 2 bomber pieces (not equalized but close), use locker beaners if you'd like, and just jump off. That way you will climb better in your range because you won't be as gripped worrying about the gear.

while i understand yer reasoning for doing this and agree that it probably will give you more confidence while doing tougher moves, it sounds like taking an unnecessary risk, imho.

 

If you think that falling on gear on purpose is an unacceptable risk, then you should make damn sure you're climbing with the intention that the leader never falls. I mean, if you're pushing yourself on lead so much that a leader fall onto good gear is highly probable (and many people do this), then you should be just as willing to fall on purpose onto good gear in a controlled situation. Otherwise, well, you shouldn't be so willing to fall ever. IMO.

 

Personally, I would *never* fall on gear on purpose. But, I also would never lead a route where I thought it was likely that I would take a lead fall. But I'm a cautious leader and that limits my growth, I suppose. But, were I inclined to push my lead level to the point where taking lead falls was a common occurrence, then falling on gear on purpose shouldn't be that concerning of an event, should it?

[rob]

Never trust your gear. If you don't fall, you don't have to.

 

The flip side of this, however, is that if you don't trust your gear, why bother placing it?

[LostCamKenny]

Otherwise, well, you shouldn't be so willing to fall ever. IMO.

i think i understand what you were getting at, but i am NEVER willing to fall - sometimes it just happens. i too am a cautious leader...

[markwebster]

aid climbing is an awesome way to learn to trust gear. We used to climb every weekend. If we got to the cliff and it was raining, we would aid climb whatever was on the agenda for a dry day.

 

Arno Ilgner covers this in "the rock warriors way". I rarely take lead falls out of the gym. But occasionally, I get over my head on a crack and realize that I have to trust the gear or I'm not going to get up the climb. But I don't trust the gear...so what to do?

 

Put in a few back up pieces...preferably a mix of bomber passive and active gear (stoppers and cams), make sure the landing is safe...no ledges to hit if gear pulls, and simply jump off.

 

Make the first jump right by the piece. The next jump is from a foot above the piece. Next jump 3 feet above, etc. Eventually you will trust the gear and make the move.

[selkirk]

If you think that falling on gear on purpose is an unacceptable risk, then you should make damn sure you're climbing with the intention that the leader never falls. I mean, if you're pushing yourself on lead so much that a leader fall onto good gear is highly probable (and many people do this), then you should be just as willing to fall on purpose onto good gear in a controlled situation. Otherwise, well, you shouldn't be so willing to fall ever. IMO.

 

I don't ever intentionally take falls (gear or sport for that matter). To me gear is a great back up (whether they are bolts or nuts), but I've never felt comfortable exposing myself to risk just to do it. That said I'm willing to, and do fall on lead.

I figure that if I continue to push myself and keep convincing myself to make one more move than I think I can (assuming the gear is good) and risk the fall, then I'll eventually log the falls I need to get comfortable.

 

IMHO "Practice" falling seems like unnecessary risk in a sport where there is already plenty or risk to go around. I'd rather aid climb (which I've done a little of), or drop some sandbags onto good gear and see what happens.

 

But Mark's comment is good. If you know you are about to head into a section where there is sparse gear (or you aren't able to stop and place it) then double or triple up your last piece, but that's just a good habit in general.

[Kimmo]

So a little over a year ago i fell and had gear ripp and was pretty messed up (ya im the tool from spokane...now we can move on past that part). Im just now getting over my fear falling again (on bolts) how can i push my mind into being comfortable on gear. I went to the Royal columns at Tieton and had to down climb a (the book says dirty) 5.7 around a roof. I need advice, I know what "good gear" is ( to bad i had to learn the hard way) But I can not get myself to fall on it.

 

HELP!

 

you have to fall on gear to learn to trust it.

 

if you really do know what bomber gear is, then place a few pieces where the fall is completely safe and: firstly hang on the gear, then climb a few inches above it and let go, then a foot above, two feet above, etc etc. and work up to a few feet and then maybe more. get to the point where it's actually fun to fall, as in play. it's possibly! maybe even have a top-rope backing up your falls....

 

if you don't get comfortable falling on gear, then you'll only enjoy climbing well below your limits (which is of course fine), and everything else will be a not fun fear-fest.

 

the warrior's way and dave mcleod address this issue pretty well, if i remember right.

 

Edited June 29, 2010 by Kimmo

[el jefe]

macleod and ilgner are right on this point. if you want to improve you have to fall off.