IB

[Off_White]

Kevin, beating the rotting carcass of the Infinite Bliss debate really does no favors to this site or the sport in general. No one is power drilling more routes on Mt Garfield, and I'm sure that Windham and Martin are paying very close attention to wilderness boundaries. Mission accomplished.

 

[Hugh Conway]

and yet you did it anyway

 

you dumb fuck

 

I'm not the one wasting thought on this discussion

[ivan]

San Fran-cisco COCK SUCKAH!

this guy n' his pigs could do wonders for the spray-o-verse

[kevbone]

Kevin, beating the rotting carcass of the Infinite Bliss debate really does no favors to this site or the sport in general.

 

No...but it sure is fun.

 

 

[dberdinka]

One of these day's I'll actually have to climb IB. I figure the main reason to climb it is so I can get into Spray arguements about whether IB or Condo Buttress is the most overbolted.

 

I didn't realize first-hand knowledge was a prerequisite for spouting off around here.

 

Having never climbed IB I must say that IMHO it is a true masterpiece, a work of everlasting art, based on the way it has engrained itself into the pysche of the PNW climber. Some climbers enjoy actually climbing it, the others enjoy using it as the prop of their consternation with which to project their identity of being a committed, untarnished, sin-free trad climber. If IB were to be actually chopped all persuasions of climbers would loose something of value, hence it remains.

 

For all the grousing of a bolt-free alpine enviroment the simple truth is the ethics of climbing in the PNW as defined by historical standards is quite the reverse. Consider the extensive use of expansion bolts in the Cashmere Crags during the 1950's to reach the summits of numerous pinnacles. While it is a bit speculative on my part I wonder if this was not one of the first places in North America if not the world where bolting was a routine element of rock climbing. In the alpine no less! If you decide to chop IB you better take the summer off because remaining consistent to your personal ethics will require the removal of numerous long routes in the Darrington area and Washington Pass.

 

Regardless in the northwest, with the bad weather and the immense diversity of the terrain, the one consistent ethic seems to have been that everything goes. If climbing IB would be a blight upon your resume I highly recommend you instead climb one of the long Doorish Routes that reach the main summit of Garfield. And please post a TR for those of us less skilled, though I won't be holding my breathe.

[jon]

ROADHOUSE!

[Hugh Conway]

ROADHOUSE!

 

This place could use some Patrick Swayze bouncer action

[marc_leclerc]

for fuck sakes.... if you dont like the fact that there are bolts. dont climb the fucking route. if there bolts are next to cracks, well that different. But really, YOU didnt do the FA, if you wanted to put a bold r/x rated route up the face then you should have gone and sent it before those guys put the bolts in. now its too late and it isnt your route. so shut the fuck up and stop making these stupid fucking threads to sounds all manly like 'im gonna go chop bolts' cause im a wannabe hardman. and if you chop it you had better fucking do it on lead, ground up, hanging from hooks or chopping from stances or you are no better than the guys who put the bolts in.

[Raindawg]

for f&*k sakes.... if you dont like the fact that there are bolts. dont climb the f*&king route. if there bolts are next to cracks, well that different. But really, YOU didnt do the FA, if you wanted to put a bold r/x rated route up the face then you should have gone and sent it before those guys put the bolts in. now its too late and it isnt your route. so shut the f*&k up and stop making these stupid fu*&ing threads to sounds all manly like 'im gonna go chop bolts' cause im a wannabe hardman. and if you chop it you had better f*&king do it on lead, ground up, hanging from hooks or chopping from stances or you are no better than the guys who put the bolts in.

 

Dude...you got a really dirty mouth for a young guy and trust me, that's not an asset and it won't serve you well in the long run.

 

To the point...the route IS a mistake....it was power-drilled in a wilderness area. It doesn't have the right to exist and in my opinion, correctly so. Mistakes should be corrected if possible. It's possible, preferably by the ones who make them.

[Raindawg]

Kevin, beating the rotting carcass of the Infinite Bliss debate really does no favors to this site or the sport in general. No one is power drilling more routes on Mt Garfield, and I'm sure that Windham and Martin are paying very close attention to wilderness boundaries. Mission accomplished.

 

The mission is accomplished when the perp's correct their mistake.

[AlpineK]

One of these day's I'll actually have to climb IB. I figure the main reason to climb it is so I can get into Spray arguements about whether IB or Condo Buttress is the most overbolted.

 

I didn't realize first-hand knowledge was a prerequisite for spouting off around here.

 

 

I don't like to make statements about climbing routes without first hand knowledge, but that's just me.

 

I have climbed Condorphamine Addiction. I like the climbing, and it has nice views of the mountains while climbing. I don't care whether the bolts were placed on lead or rap. The only negative in my view is it would be a much better route as a 3 pitch climb with half as many bolts.

 

I would like to climb IB since I've never climbed in the Garfield area. Obviously power drilling in a wilderness area is a negative, but perhaps a necessary negative since I believe it will, or has, inspire route setters to study maps more to make sure they aren't in a wilderness area before breaking out the power drill.

 

On CC bolting leads to a lot of idiotic debates that are both amusing and annoying. On questioning by folks who find out I mod here I usually tell them to read bolting debates here if they like to sift through a ton of bs or find that sort of thing funny.

 

A serious discussion regarding bolting would be nice since I believe there are real issues, but I question if that would ever happen here.

 

Raindawg and Pope are representatives of one faction of the discussion. They do have points worth discussing, but they usually represent their views with pictures of ham sandwiches on routes or Richard Simmons. I laughed the first time I saw it, but with humor you need to come up with new material otherwise it's stale.

[Bug]

Hey Kimmo, Maybe you missed it but I asked for someone to bolt the Gendarme pitches on the NR of Stuart so fat old farts like me can get up it. Would you mind? It would make it accessable to the masses.

We all know how important that is.

 

and we all know how similar it is too (not to mention important. because i'm quite sure my world would come to an end if this happened. and that is how i measure importance).

Since when did you develope the powers of descernment?

You have stated in the past that you will bolt anything.

Get out your drill dipshit.

The masses will descend on the NR as soon as you provide the rich resource. Is there any arguement that the NR of Stuart wouldn't see more activity if all you needed was quickdraws?

[ivan]

The mission is accomplished when the perp's correct their mistake.

hypothetically they go back, and replace each power-drilled bolt w/ a hand-drilled bolt

 

will this stop the bitching?

[billcoe]

The mission is accomplished when the perp's correct their mistake.

 

What are you saying? Do we have to vote Bush Cheney BACK into office then? 8 years wasn't enough borrow, spend and war politics you want them back in to apologize and then fix this mess they left the country?

[Kimmo]

Since when did you develope the powers of descernment?

You have stated in the past that you will bolt anything.

Get out your drill dipshit.

The masses will descend on the NR as soon as you provide the rich resource. Is there any arguement that the NR of Stuart wouldn't see more activity if all you needed was quickdraws?

 

what the hell are you talking about, man? your middle-aged gut has gone to your head, bro, cuz you ain't making sense. bolt anything.... sheesh.

 

onto lighter topics haha, 170.25 at the gym yesterday, 169.5 today. yes!160 by the end of feb, 155 in march!

[Bug]

Right on.

Last time I weighed 155 I was in 6th grade.

[Kimmo]

ah a big boi. i'll make sure those bolts are 1/2" stainless.

[Pete_H]

for fuck sakes.... if you dont like the fact that there are bolts. dont climb the fucking route. if there bolts are next to cracks, well that different. But really, YOU didnt do the FA, if you wanted to put a bold r/x rated route up the face then you should have gone and sent it before those guys put the bolts in. now its too late and it isnt your route. so shut the fuck up and stop making these stupid fucking threads to sounds all manly like 'im gonna go chop bolts' cause im a wannabe hardman. and if you chop it you had better fucking do it on lead, ground up, hanging from hooks or chopping from stances or you are no better than the guys who put the bolts in.

 

 

Must be nice to be 18 years old and know everything despite the fact that most of the other contributers here have been climbing longer than you have been alive.

 

Its also perhaps relevant that most of the route was previously climbed ground up, sans bolts.

 

[Julian]

Hey Kimmo, Maybe you missed it but I asked for someone to bolt the Gendarme pitches on the NR of Stuart so fat old farts like me can get up it. Would you mind? It would make it accessable to the masses.

We all know how important that is.

 

Comparing that to IB is like complaining about someone bolting a new line in Aggro Gully at Smith by sarcastically asking them to bolt the lower East Face of the Monkey Face.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

The masses will descend on the NR as soon as you provide the rich resource. Is there any arguement that the NR of Stuart wouldn't see more activity if all you needed was quickdraws?

 

Yes. The approach.

[eldiente]

Must be nice to be 18 years old and know everything despite the fact that most of the other contributers here have been climbing longer than you have been alive.

 

It must be nice to have all that wisdom gained over the years and apply it to the redpoint of Givler's Crack that you've been working so hard on. Those jams are tricky, no young punk could ever figure it out! (Although I hear Marc is going to send as soon as he gets done playing with his iPhone)

 

If were looking for opinion leader, I'm not sure if age or number years climbing has much to to do with it. Sorry. Anyone climbing at a high level (like Marc) clearly knows something about climbing.

Edited January 28, 2010 by eldiente

[Pete_H]

Marc's a good climber and definitly seems like his got his shit together a lot more than most kids his age. But he's still a punk.

 

FYI though I've already got a gear cache set up by Givler's for the sit start I'm adding to the route. It'll be so ill.

[AlpineK]

Marc's a good climber and definitly seems like his got his shit together a lot more than most kids his age. But he's still a punk.

 

The only way to not be a punk is to put in some years.

 

[Kimmo]

i think the comment towards marc was more about his ethics, and those have nothing to do with one's climbing abilities.

 

not that i really care about ib one way or another. sounds like garfield's got plenty of adventure left on her flanks. oo lala

[Kimmo]

and if donald aka dwayner was anything besides a whiner, he'd go remove the horrible terrible offensive bolts himself. but he's not, so he won't.

 

but for all i know, he just trolls and doesn't give a damn about bolts and such anyways.