Where's The Data?

[johndavidjr]

Builders' plastic is a piece of shit that is utilitarian.

 

The world looks flat, but the media claims it's round. I haven't seen the data, & am suspicious of people who are good at math.

 

[Choada_Boy]

An eclipse of the moon provides evidence that the Earth is round, but you'll need to accept the Copernican model of the solar system, which Douche Nozzle is still struggling with, seeing that his boy Ptolemy was pro gun.

[Fairweather]

Copenhagen is off to a great start. I guess change is only for the little people...

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,579666,00.html

 

[Fairweather]

Great story:

 

http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/03/climate-science-gore-intelligent-technology-sutton.html

[ivan]

Copenhagen is off to a great start. I guess change is only for the little people...

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,579666,00.html

the rich n' powerful appear to be dipshits on both sides of the spectrum (seem to recall the same story last year re: auto bailouts)

[johndavidjr]

I'd ask Fairweather, again, whether he can produce alternate analysis of NOAA "data" that has thousands of climatologists convinced regarding anthro warming or whatever.

 

Of course he can't, but instead, offers us an opinion apparently based on Glen Beck television.

 

Great that you've finally got reception in Tacoma....Gives ya'll something novel...

[Fairweather]

Copenhagen is off to a great start. I guess change is only for the little people...

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,579666,00.html

the rich n' powerful appear to be dipshits on both sides of the spectrum (seem to recall the same story last year re: auto bailouts)

 

Exactly what I was thinking too. Man, they absolutely roasted those beggars. But now, nary a raised eyebrow.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I'd ask Fairweather, again, whether he can produce alternate analysis of NOAA "data" that has thousands of climatologists convinced regarding anthro warming or whatever.

 

Of course he can't, but instead, offers us an opinion apparently based on Glen Beck television.

 

Great that you've finally got reception in Tacoma....Gives ya'll something novel...

 

climatologists and glen beck are "functionally similar"

 

[olyclimber]

the joke is funny, even if it is functionally inaccurate.

[Fairweather]

I'd ask Fairweather, again, whether he can produce alternate analysis of NOAA "data" that has thousands of climatologists convinced regarding anthro warming or whatever.

 

Of course he can't, but instead, offers us an opinion apparently based on Glen Beck television.

 

Great that you've finally got reception in Tacoma....Gives ya'll something novel...

 

climatologists and glen beck are "functionally similar"

 

I must say, KK old boy; I never realized New Jersey was quite so gnatty. Pardon my asking, but would you have any spare Deet kicking about your kit?

[ivan]

 

Exactly what I was thinking too. Man, they absolutely roasted those beggars. But now, nary a raised eyebrow.

probably 'cuz only fox can ask the difficult questions

[j_b]

I'd ask Fairweather, again, whether he can produce alternate analysis of NOAA "data" that has thousands of climatologists convinced regarding anthro warming or whatever.

 

Of course he can't, but instead, offers us an opinion apparently based on Glen Beck television.

 

Great that you've finally got reception in Tacoma....Gives ya'll something novel...

 

climatologists and glen beck are "functionally similar"

 

I must say, KK old boy; I never realized New Jersey was quite so gnatty. Pardon my asking, but would you have any spare Deet kicking about your kit?

 

So, how is that conspiracy by climate scientists and all scientific associations progressing? did you find the "decline they were hiding"? Dimwit!

[mattp]

Of course, maybe its just that I agree with our Jersey boy on this particular subject...

 

Yup. And I kind of agree, too. There is a lot of overpriced crap sold to willing buyers based on marketing. A piece of Tyvek with pebbles in the corners and strings tied around the pebbles is in certain applications better than the $600 North Face tent, and the Salvation Army pants can perform just as well for rock climbing as the Metolious threads (I'll stop short of buying my climbing ropes at Home Depot, though).

 

But we're talking science here. Clearly it must mean that all atmospheric and climatological scientists are wrong if somebody e-mailed somebody else about dumping data from one particular collection.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Of course, maybe its just that I agree with our Jersey boy on this particular subject...

 

Yup. And I kind of agree, too. There is a lot of overpriced crap sold to willing buyers based on marketing. A piece of Tyvek with pebbles in the corners and strings tied around the pebbles is in certain applications better than the $600 North Face tent, and the Salvation Army pants can perform just as well for rock climbing as the Metolious threads (I'll stop short of buying my climbing ropes at Home Depot, though).

 

So, then, you use a Tyvek shelter and Salvation Army pants, right?

[mattp]

As a matter of fact, I have. For a tarp I generally carry something a little more upscale but not really functionally much different than a piece of tyvek (and I have in fact carried Tyvek). For ski-camping below timberline it is vastly preferable to a tent. As to pants? I do in fact find salvation army dress slacks or just plain jeans more practical for rock climbing than softshell pants that cost 10x - no 25x - as much.

 

Let's get back to science.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

As a matter of fact, I have. For a tarp I generally carry something a little more upscale but not really functionally much different than a piece of tyvek (and I have in fact carried Tyvek). For ski-camping below timberline it is vastly preferable to a tent. As to pants? I do in fact find salvation army dress slacks or just plain jeans more practical for rock climbing than softshell pants that cost 10x - no 25x - as much.

 

For alpine dude.

 

I've seen folks bring up some flimsy tarps on volcano climbs in great conditions (forecast bluebird, freezing level 14K or higher), but as a general practice... not so much

 

Me I prefer my $150 bivy sack any time I can get away with it. Not really that pricy for the confidence I have in it and considering the consequences of equipment failure in marginal condtions. Pants cost me $65. Less than a pair of tennis shoes.

 

[mattp]

Now we are seriously hijacking this thread. But for alpine, dude, I would say that I don't have much use for the bivvy sack unless you are on a grade V or VI technical climb without a good bivvy site. And then I'd prefer a two-person glad bag to the (now) standard individual bivvy bags. If you are camping at the base of a route or at a remotely comfortable campsite in the middle of one, I believe a tent is more efficient and more comfortable than the bivvy bag.

 

For "alpine" climbing (whatever that is) I do use something a little more sophisticated than the salvation army pants. We could talk about situations and scenarios for a long time, I'm sure.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Now we are seriously hijacking this thread. But for alpine, dude, I would say that I don't have much use for the bivvy sack unless you are on a grade V or VI technical climb without a good bivvy site. And then I'd prefer a two-person glad bag to the (now) standard individual bivvy bags. If you are camping at the base of a route or at a remotely comfortable campsite in the middle of one, I believe a tent is more efficient and more comfortable than the bivvy bag.

 

what does climbing have to do with comfort? ;-)

 

i have a 2-person tent. It didn't cost me much more than my bivy, but was certainly more than $25. But, then again, it works.

 

[mattp]

I have one of those tents too. It is good for backpacking in mosquito season and really nice for car camping when I want to set something up without screwing around. I don't think I'd take it on Mt. Rainier, though, and certainly not if windy conditions were predicted. For that you better shell out the $ or dig a snow cave. I've been up there in winter without a tent and I think the snow cave is not a bad option but you do have to know a little about what you're doing (though I guess tent camping in high winds presents parallel, if different, challenges).

[AlpineK]

Back on subject (Ut oh)

 

Is climate change proven on the level of a mathematical proof, or say something like F = MA? No it isn't, but the vast majority of science we use on a daily basis is not proven at the 100% level.

 

Of course climate science will cause a lot of controversy. After all big industries make money from adding CO2 to the air. Entire countries, and the people in them, rely on industries that produce CO2 as a byproduct to generate jobs and provide economic stimulation. Based on this fact it is not in anybodies interest to impose restrictions on people or industry.

 

If the vast majority of scientists say it is happening, and their work is reviewed by other scientists then it is a real issue. I'm sure due to the economic impact of the necessary changes to life every country out there is going to review the science before agreeing to changes.

 

The only folks out there who don't buy in are folks like the oil and coal industry, and they pay for information consistent with their view, or wingnuts like Fairweather who rely on Veterinarians to spoon feed them the info they want to hear.

 

 

[johndavidjr]

Fairweather is simply unable to interpret reality, apart from the extremely complex data regarding which he may have some misguided interest.

 

He's a seriously good guy, and since his disability is a serious and signficant personal handicap, he does deserves our sympathies. We can offer to help, but probably, there is little that can be accomplished. He's like a severe crack addict, wedded to his fate and favorite television programs.

 

...yeah I almost always use a (non-waterproof) grossly overpriced bivy these days. Currently lacking actual "tent" in whatever format, one doesn't require a "piece of shit" groundsheet.

 

However, I indeed used a K-Mart equivalent to the Wenzel Starlite with complete satisfaction for about ten years of extensive "3-season" experiences, and I do believe they/it are/is/was, equal to many bits of "piece of shit" merchandise now available, and fairly effective, at retail, for about $100-$500.

[j_b]

Damn! Even the World Meteorological Organization is in the conspiracy: No Slowdown of Global Warming (in the NYT of course, there is your proof it's a commie plot)

[johndavidjr]

Yeah NYT people are all about propaganda.

 

Relevance of K-Mart tent is, if people "scaled" their equipment requirements to reality-- their real objectives-- this could be helpful. Think SUVs for grocery shopping.

 

Buy a North Face Tent AND a K-Mart tent. You'll send lots of money to China; much more for NF tent.

 

Using K-Mart tent when appropriate, will save NF tent and make it last longer, possibly 'till you're dead. Ultimately, more money will be available to banks, society, for investment. Maybe in technology that will reduce greenhouse gas? Maybe in Tacoma condos. Certainly your personal bank account will look better.

[Pete_H]

But K-Mart tent doesn't fit with my bling bling lifestyle.

[G-spotter]

The psychology of denial:

 

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/12/climate-psychology/#more-15274