G-spotter Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 If an aid route does NOT appear to get renamed by the FFA party it actually means that the free name given is just the same as the old aid name. Quote
ScaredSilly Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 The Nose did get a new name "The Nose Free". In my experience (30+ years of flogging around) very few routes get renamed after a free ascent. Yeah sure there are the exceptions. One reason many of the big walls are probably not renamed is because of the relative of free v aid that is freed v the amount of time between the FA and FFA. In some cases such as Astroman it is known as the free version versus the East Face of Washington Column which is the aid version. So if you say you have done Astroman you had damn well had done it free. Personally if someone has freed a significant feature on a route that is a small portion of the overall route that does not warrant a name change. Especially, if they happen to be one of many people who have freed various portions over the years. If someone has freed a significant amount of the route that has not been freed in the past then maybe all depends ... BTW if some does an ascent on TR then some one else later does the first lead should they get to remain it??? Quote
kevbone Posted August 31, 2009 Author Posted August 31, 2009 Dean potter freed that old Jimmy Dunn aid line and renamed it. I thought that was crap. Quote
Kimmo Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 i think the "FA" of this particular route was last summer, about a year ago? and wasn't a lot of aid used, since it was raining? such is my understanding.... i think it was quite a change in style overall, from almost an aid recon ascent, to an all-free ascent, yes? Quote
Dane Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 Off, you are right, anything I renamed was clearly done in a era when it was common practice to rename lines on the FFA. Roskelley did it on Becky aid lines, I did it on his. I can only speak for myself...but there was no disrespect for the other's accomplishments and no, or at least little, competition. I think we can easily say by what has been posted there was a bit of competition (for good reason imo, nice line and hard climbing) going on between crews on CBR. Everyone wants there efforts recognised. I think that is legitimate. And yes most of the free lines on El Cap are combinations and variations. But most free lines are variations. No question the .12c pitch defines the CBR line. The only disrespect I percieved after reading the CBR thread and this one is that of not giving credit where it is do, both to the guys who came up with the idea of the line and then climb it and then the guys who actually spent the time and effort to free it. And most but not all of that is by those that have never been on the line. Sounds like the Nose if you think about it. Jardine was one of the earliest to come up with the idea. After Bridwell and crew started working Free Blast iirc. Took Lynn Hill to actually pull it off. And yes she could have renamed it anything she'd cared to and as a free climb..the name would have stuck. In the grand scheme of things a year from now most won't give a shit who or how it was done. The credit for the ascent won't matter, 1st or free. What does matter is it is a nice line and just as important a good adventure for everyone involved. Hopefully their experience won't be lowered by igits like us disrespecting their efforts by bantering about it on the Internet. Kevin sez but IMO, you are totally dissing the FA party. You dont get to rename this route. What a shitty thing to do. Kev IMO you look like an ass on this topic. Tom and his partner can rename the route or just the pitch. HIS choice historically and rightfully so. After a couple of the posts on the CBR thread I know I would. We can only guess at the motives....as it should be. CBR Full Tilt IV 5.12C COOL! (PS) D. Cramer, who has done as much hard FFAs as anyone locally covered it in less words and better in the other thread. Quote
Kimmo Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 CBR Full Tilt IV 5.12C IV 12c. I suppose time will tell.... Quote
Kimmo Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 (BTW, good points and succinct post, although i'm not 100% sure i agree with them!). Quote
Dane Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 IV 12c. I suppose time will tell.... Jeezuz don't give Kevin any ideas...the ultimate diss....down grade...from your computer (edit) Kimmo..the funniest thing I have seen so far on this topic...[question] the line was done a year previous? If so that makes some of the earlier CBR posts seem really petty. How about some long over due credit to the real FA party? Quote
kevbone Posted August 31, 2009 Author Posted August 31, 2009 Kevin sez but IMO, you are totally dissing the FA party. You dont get to rename this route. What a shitty thing to do. Kev IMO you look like an ass on this topic. Tom and his partner can rename the route or just the pitch. HIS choice historically and rightfully so. After a couple of the posts on the CBR thread I know I would. We can only guess at the motives....as it should be. CBR Full Tilt IV 5.12C COOL! (PS) D. Cramer, who has done as much hard FFAs as anyone locally covered it in less words and better in the other thread. Well Dane, we are going to have to agree to disagree. I dont believe in renaming routes, simply because you climbed it in a different style. Just because it has been done in the past does not make it something I would do. Quote
Dane Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 My point Kevin...that is hard to make on the Internet...is when people starting slinging names around like "shitty thing to do" or "you're an ass" typically the poster isn't being very objective or usually right. Why routes get renamed besides the historically context where it is accepted may well have many reasons. The .12 on CBR is spectacular and I suspect took some real effort physically and mentally to accomplish aid or free. I think (and it is just me) that giving people shit in public (like the Internet) about what ever they do climbing, short of fucking up the rock or getting someone hurt is really disrespectful of their accomplishments. Quote
Off_White Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 Perhaps the CBR route should be renamed "Tempest In A Teapot"? Quote
Rad Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 ...Just because it has been done in the past does not make it something I would do. Then don't do it and stop trying to impose your own ideas on others. Quote
Rad Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 I think (and it is just me) that giving people shit in public (like the Internet) about what ever they do climbing, short of fucking up the rock or getting someone hurt is really disrespectful of their accomplishments. I agree 100%. This illustrates why plenty of climbers want nothing to do with cc.com Quote
kevbone Posted August 31, 2009 Author Posted August 31, 2009 Perhaps the CBR route should be renamed "Tempest In A Teapot"? Quote
Bug Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 First, Lynn Hill had every right to rename the Nose. Personally, given the era and the personalities involved, "Clitoris" would have been such a perfect choice. Second, my favorite first ascent was about 10 pitches and included aid. All I cared about was getting to be the first to free the splitter through the 15' roof that was 1800 ft off the ground. The FFA team left the name intact because the roof was the defining pitch and the bolt protecting the crux (lower down) would have been impossible to place without hooks. And a whipper would have been certain death on a jagged ledge. Even so, they freed it and would have been well within traditional ethics to rename it. Free vs Aid, they just are not the same climb imo. Quote
RuMR Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 no...because you read "intent" into other's actions...ALL THE TIME... You think someone is changing a name to be disrespectful??...gimme a break? Did they say something along those lines? Its got nothing to do with disrespect or respect...you have absolutely no idea what was in the FFA's mind...you are only guessing... Quote
StevenSeagal Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 kevbone, time for you to join the army before you get drafted. Quote
kevbone Posted August 31, 2009 Author Posted August 31, 2009 no...because you read "intent" into other's actions...ALL THE TIME... You think someone is changing a name to be disrespectful??...gimme a break? Did they say something along those lines? Its got nothing to do with disrespect or respect...you have absolutely no idea what was in the FFA's mind...you are only guessing... Please show me where I wrote people are changing names " TO BE disrespectful". I never wrote that. I think it IS disrespectful. How the hell am I supposed to know what people are thinking? Jeezzzz...... Quote
RuMR Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 how is it disresectful then?? its the same thing as saying a rating is egotistical...you have no idea why someone states a rating... YOU may find it egotistical or disrespectful, when the intent is not that at all... you should quit telling people what to do...its annoying as fuck and makes you look like a "whiny little bitch"... Quote
kevbone Posted August 31, 2009 Author Posted August 31, 2009 how is it disresectful then?? you should quit telling people what to do...its annoying as fuck and makes you look like a "whiny little bitch"... Rudy. I am not telling anyone what to do. Where did I write that? You are the master of putting words in my mouth. I am not sure you have the ability to understand what I am talking about. I think it is a diss on who came before you. Pure and simple.....I dont think it is meant to be disrespectfull......but it is. IMO. Quote
RuMR Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) again...how is it a diss if its not meant to be????????? When you start saying something is disrespectful you are saying its wrong, aren't you? Therefore, and i'll type really slow so you can follow, if you say something is wrong, you are saying don't do it...and, here comes the clincher, when you say don't do it YOU ARE TELLING THEM WHAT TO DO! gee, isn't logic wonderful???? You dumbfuck... Edited August 31, 2009 by RuMR Quote
kevbone Posted August 31, 2009 Author Posted August 31, 2009 again...how is it a diss if its not meant to be????????? I am sorry Rudy. I cant help you. Quote
Choada_Boy Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 "I think it's a dick move renaming this route" said I from my armchair. Perhaps his intentions are not as such and perhaps I should rather say, in mixed company, that I find it "impolite" or, dare I say it, "rude", and most likely he is much less than a "dick". This is a case of manners. For it is manners that separates us from the beasts. Carry on, gentlemen, carry on. Quote
pink Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 "I think it's a dick move renaming this route" said I from my armchair. Perhaps his intentions are not as such and perhaps I should rather say, in mixed company, that I find it "impolite" or, dare I say it, "rude", and most likely he is much less than a "dick". This is a cases of manners. For it is manners that separates us from the beasts. Carry on, gentlemen, carry on. mr. politically correct Quote
Choada_Boy Posted September 1, 2009 Posted September 1, 2009 That's how I roll. When they fire up the route Wiki, can we battle over what to call what, ad nauseum? Quote
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