Obama Healthcare Lies

[prole]

Sorry, but I would rather tolerate the present cost-shifting scheme via higher premiums than sacrifice any more freedom to government.

 

Oh? Which freedoms were you thinking of specifically that you've sacrificed lately? Better yet, which of your freedoms specifically are under threat from the public option health care proposals currently before Congress?

Edited August 19, 2009 by prole

[StevenSeagal]

 

Personally, I'd like the freedom to be able to choose the option being put forth by the Obama Administration. If anyone's rights are being infringed upon, it's the people who're un and/or underinsured who'd like to have access to some goddamn health-care.

 

 

...and, of course, have someone else pay for it. Sorry, but I would rather tolerate the present cost-shifting scheme via higher premiums than sacrifice any more freedom to government.

 

premiums which are only going to keep getting higher, including your own. How long til your employer decides to bail on your plan FW? Word is many employers are going to keep dropping plans in the near future since the current system is not sustainable.

 

But for now, as long as you're happy, that's all that matters. There are a lot of hard working people who cannot afford decent coverage, that isn't your reality but it's a fact of life if you would take a look around and suspend your assumption that all un or underinsured are just lazy.

 

Your quote about men with consciences being more dangerous is interesting, but perhaps you should question whether with this issue the conscience lies not just with some liberal politician and more within the heart of the public as well. Despite hyperbolic angry demonstrations and media distortions, the majority of Americans would like to at least have the option to CHOOSE a public plan, as well as allowing people like you to keep your wonderful plan. I just think your proposal is more likely to kill your own plan in the long run.

[Fairweather]

Seriously, though, do all these right-wing fucktards like Fairweather actually believe their own thoughts and oral spew? How can you be that mentally diminished and still convert oxygen into carbon dioxide?

 

I just love the way overweight, uneducated dumbfucks like Choada can't even comprehend--much less carry on a conversation about--points of a given topic where disagreement exists. I suspect his place in this world is a dark corner, from which he briefly and violently emerges only to spew the above bullshit. Just what the world needs: another leftist sociopath.

[billcoe]

I just love the way overweight, uneducated dumbfucks like Choada can't even comprehend--much less carry on a conversation about--points of a given topic where disagreement exists.

 

I don't. Looking at Justin Thibault's (Choada Boy) continual attack posts that never have any logic, address the issue or are on topic, I just figured he must be too stupid to formulate thoughts of his own which make sense and are well argued and on topic and perhaps he's just plain mentally fucked up so this is his plea for attention. In either case, I decided to ignore him like most others on this site.

 

Regards

 

 

[StevenSeagal]

I just love the way overweight, uneducated dumbfucks like Choada can't even comprehend--much less carry on a conversation about--points of a given topic where disagreement exists.

 

I don't. Looking at Justin Thibault's (Choada Boy) continual attack posts that never have any logic, address the issue or are on topic, I just figured he must be too stupid to formulate thoughts of his own which make sense and are well argued and on topic and perhaps he's just plain mentally fucked up so this is his plea for attention. In either case, I decided to ignore him like most others on this site.

 

Regards

 

 

did you give him a care bear? Otherwise your ignoring of him is just symbolic.

 

[olyclimber]

i love it too! i HEART it! 8D

[prole]

I just think your proposal is more likely to kill your own plan in the long run.

 

Surrender to irrational fear and willful blindness to their own interests are the hallmarks of the conservative "movement", at least among the middle and working class. Self-immolation in the service of corporate power has been a recurring theme in Western history and the inevitable fate of the Angry White Man, the Scab, and the Kapo.

 

You can see the contradiction in almost every post-tirade interview with the town-hall blowhards. The interviewer asks about the blowhard's own health-care situation to which they inevitably answer, "I like my plan, I'm working three jobs, I have a $5000 deductible, if I get sick I'll be indebted for the rest of my life, but I heard the public option is a Trojan Horse for an alien invasion."

[j_b]

once again the democrats are going to shoot themselves in the foot by squabbling endlessly amongst themselves and will then wonder how they blew it so quickly. Meanwhile the Republicans can't wait to take back power in 2010 and maybe 2012 too, so they can get back to doing absolutely nothing about health care except maintaining the profit margins of the insurance lobby.

 

as if that wasn't predictable that catering to conservatives that drove the nation's economy under (and I am not just talking about the casino economy but the real economy) and committed trillions to military adventurism would lead to the Democrats losing credibility with those that voted for them and are consistently on their left on most issues. I mean, when does it become a legitimate question to ask whether everything is going according to plan?

[prole]

 

[video:youtube]

 

 

[j_b]

...and, of course, have someone else pay for it. Sorry, but I would rather tolerate the present cost-shifting scheme via higher premiums than sacrifice any more freedom to government.

 

when people like FW, who condone every freedom-slaying measure taken by Bushco and every conservative coup d'etat like recently in Honduras, gargarize continuously about "freedom", i feel nauseous to my stomach. Why don't you advocate giving people jobs and paying people a living wage instead of whining about providing healthcare to those who can't afford the bloated cost of insurance.

[j_b]

I just love the way overweight, uneducated dumbfucks like Choada can't even comprehend--much less carry on a conversation about--points of a given topic where disagreement exists.

 

I don't. Looking at Justin Thibault's (Choada Boy) continual attack posts that never have any logic, address the issue or are on topic, I just figured he must be too stupid to formulate thoughts of his own which make sense and are well argued and on topic and perhaps he's just plain mentally fucked up so this is his plea for attention. In either case, I decided to ignore him like most others on this site.

 

Regards

 

 

as if FW and other neanderthals here addressed issues or showed logic. You could show the decency of staying out of this if you aren't going to advocate "ignoring" them like you advertise ignoring choada boy.

[StevenSeagal]

[video:youtube]

 

 

this is exactly it:

 

questioner: "what are your hopes for health care?"

lady: "I want Obama voted out of office!"

 

 

These people aren't interested in addressing this problem despite admitting there is one; their primary interest is in defeating the president and winning political points.

 

There isn't a single proposal that Obama could offer that will gain a single Republican vote- Grassley himself helped wring out talk of concession on the public option then today says they'll oppose any health care reform legislation. So at this point if the democrats want anything passed, they need to unite amonst themselves on a common goal and say fuck the republicans- it would be better to be defeated going all out than to cave in and get defeated anyway.

 

FW, put another way, I would rather pay either higher taxes ( within reason) or higher premiums for where I have a known and predictable cost, and have peace of mind that I am covered, than currently paying relatively high premiums and still living in constant worry that a broken ankle or an ER visit is pretty much coming completely out of my pocket to the tune of 7-10 grand, which will set me back years financially - despite the fact that I've bucked up for insurance.

 

That so many conservatives would rather play politics and declare themselves happy with the prospect of being bankrupted is baffling to me- I don't hear anything that is proposing "free" health care- I don't expect it- I just expect "insurance" to be exactly that- insurance against going broke for getting sick or injured. The current system only does that for people who can already afford coverage that equates to an amount akin to a second mortgage payment.

 

FW is there any reform you would accept much less advocate assuming it came from Obama? Or does it have to be a conservative that proposes it? Because at this point the conservatives appear to me to be interested simply in obstruction.

[j_b]

when was the last time that the corporate media paid that much attention to demonstrators? (I mean besides the recent tea-parties that also happened to be the product of corporate astroturf organizing)

 

Certainly not when there were millions in the streets to denounce the war of aggression on Iraq or any other time that some people protested the policies decided in Washington.

 

in the same vein, be ready for the new astroturf organizing: Leaked email reveals that American Petroleum Institute is planning a series of rallies to protest against Waxman-Markey bill

[j_b]

Guide to Corporate Astroturfing: Lobbyist-Run Groups Orchestrating

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Well how many people does it server vs. Canadia? Do compare.

 

By comparison the US population is 10X that of Canada, and even with 85% coverage, our system serves at least 8.5X that of Canada, so dropping from 30th to 37th should be acceptable - explanable by the larger number of people served by our Health Care system. Problem solved!

 

[Choada_Boy]

I just love the way overweight, uneducated dumbfucks like Choada can't even comprehend--much less carry on a conversation about--points of a given topic where disagreement exists.

 

I don't. Looking at The Macho Man Randy Savage's (Choada Boy) continual attack posts that never have any logic, address the issue or are on topic, I just figured he must be too stupid to formulate thoughts of his own which make sense and are well argued and on topic and perhaps he's just plain mentally fucked up so this is his plea for attention. In either case, I decided to ignore him like most others on this site.

 

Regards

 

 

Gee, Bill, how do I get everyone on this site to ignore me?

 

Thanks for posting my name, BTW, that must have taken you, like, 45 minutes to figure out, but boy, what a sense of pride it must bring you. Unidawg will be thrilled. And I don't waste my powers of logic arguing with zealots like yourself. It's a waste of time/energy, and much less fun than poking a hornet's nest with a stick. Carry on...

 

[tvashtarkatena]

And here I thought all you Or EE gun boyz were faggot buddies.

Edited August 19, 2009 by tvashtarkatena

[prole]

FW, put another way, I would rather pay either higher taxes ( within reason) or higher premiums for where I have a known and predictable cost, and have peace of mind that I am covered, than currently paying relatively high premiums and still living in constant worry that a broken ankle or an ER visit is pretty much coming completely out of my pocket to the tune of 7-10 grand, which will set me back years financially - despite the fact that I've bucked up for insurance.

 

Do you make more than $200,000+ a year? You wouldn't pay higher taxes under some of the proposals. Unfortunately, this provision is likely to be struck under any compromise with Republicans (who're fighting for the common man, of course).

[KaskadskyjKozak]

FW, put another way, I would rather pay either higher taxes ( within reason) or higher premiums for where I have a known and predictable cost, and have peace of mind that I am covered, than currently paying relatively high premiums and still living in constant worry that a broken ankle or an ER visit is pretty much coming completely out of my pocket to the tune of 7-10 grand, which will set me back years financially - despite the fact that I've bucked up for insurance.

 

Do you make more than $200,000+ a year? You wouldn't pay higher taxes under some of the proposals. Unfortunately, this provision is likely to be struck under any compromise with Republicans (who're fighting for the common man, of course).

 

I heard all businesses would be hit with a payroll deduction under some of these proposals - whether or not your employer already pays for (some or all) of you health insurance. That is a new tax and if true, is bullshit. If I *want* to go with the public option, then I should be apply to apply my employer-paid portion to the public option, but I should not have to fund it if I am already getting coverage that I am happy with.

 

[ivan]

could any of the members of the jesus fanclub out there please explain how its tyranical and unchristian to provide basic healthcare to all human beings?

[StevenSeagal]

FW, put another way, I would rather pay either higher taxes ( within reason) or higher premiums for where I have a known and predictable cost, and have peace of mind that I am covered, than currently paying relatively high premiums and still living in constant worry that a broken ankle or an ER visit is pretty much coming completely out of my pocket to the tune of 7-10 grand, which will set me back years financially - despite the fact that I've bucked up for insurance.

 

Do you make more than $200,000+ a year? You wouldn't pay higher taxes under some of the proposals. Unfortunately, this provision is likely to be struck under any compromise with Republicans (who're fighting for the common man, of course).

 

if I made that much, I wouldn't be complaining because a 1-2K a month premium for complete coverage wouldn't make a dent in my wallet and I would have unfettered access to what is otherwise the best quality care on the world.

 

But I don't, therefore even with insurance even minor injuries and illnesses will be a huge financial setback; a major event will do the same but the only consolation is there is some cap to it- that is, if the insurance company doesn't find a way to deny coverage. Oh and long term PT? 10 visits a year! In a major injury, that should be used up in about 3-4 weeks, about a 1/5 of the time you need for recovery and PT from, for ex., ACL repair.

 

Anyway my point was that I would even be willing to pay a little extra in taxes as a trade off for not losing 1-2 years of savings all at once for each medical incident. At least you can budget for your taxes or premiums.

[prole]

FW, put another way, I would rather pay either higher taxes ( within reason) or higher premiums for where I have a known and predictable cost, and have peace of mind that I am covered, than currently paying relatively high premiums and still living in constant worry that a broken ankle or an ER visit is pretty much coming completely out of my pocket to the tune of 7-10 grand, which will set me back years financially - despite the fact that I've bucked up for insurance.

 

Do you make more than $200,000+ a year? You wouldn't pay higher taxes under some of the proposals. Unfortunately, this provision is likely to be struck under any compromise with Republicans (who're fighting for the common man, of course).

 

I heard all businesses would be hit with a payroll deduction under some of these proposals - whether or not your employer already pays for (some or all) of you health insurance. That is a new tax and if true, is bullshit. If I *want* to go with the public option, then I should be apply to apply my employer-paid portion to the public option, but I should not have to fund it if I am already getting coverage that I am happy with.

 

I hear ya. I feel the same way about my tax money going to fund wars for US corporations. Anyway, I'd be interested to hear more about the payroll deduction "if it's true".

[pink]

what's even more impressive is when someone provides basic things for themselves!

[tvashtarkatena]

Isn't your wife gonna need some extra emergency room coverage comin' up here?

[pink]

i don't think so