Dumbass Climbers?

[Choada_Boy]

Would anyone like to offer any unsolicited advice to the dudes who climbed Baker the other day? Maybe matt will let you do so here and not on the TR. I think it's a worthy discussion.

[G-spotter]

I have a hunch it's more about form than content. If the trip report had been a one-paragraph "We climbed Baker via Coleman-Deming, great conditions, good views" type of things no one would have said much. The guy's trip report, however, lays out a million and one things they did "wrong" but doesn't take the appropriate "oh my god we fucked up and almost died" tone. It's more along the lines of "we fucked up and got lucky, so we rock!"

 

So you have someone both detailing the mistakes they made and appearing cocky about it instead of kissing the feet of the 11th Essential. That's bound to attract the naysayers.

 

On the other hand if somebody wrote a TR along the lines of "I toproped Classic Crack with the rope running through a sling, no biner. The sling is a bit melted now but I got up the thing" you might expect that someone would post up "You shouldn't run a load bearing rope through nylon cause it will cut the nylon and you will die" too.

 

I didn't pay enough attention to see if these Baker guys really were just dumb and lucky or if they were hyping relatively minor details in their TR up into a supreme mediocre epic chestbeat.

 

What exactly that was so bad that happened? They wore snowshoes, didn't take the 10 essentials, had bad weather and bad snow conditions?

[marc_leclerc]

 

What exactly that was so bad that happened? They wore snowshoes, didn't take the 10 essentials, had bad weather and bad snow conditions?

 

Pretty much... they didn't do it in perfect, north-american, wear the most high tech gear fashion. Sort of how I always get bashed b/c i wear jeans to the crag sometimes....

[mattp]

Yes, Mr. Choada, it may be a worthy discussion. I have my doubts, but it could well prove "worthy." However: we have a very clear and nearly consistent policy for trip reports on this site. We discourage if not delete the kind of criticism and commentary that you and others may feel is compelling but which is not just critical but judgmental to the point of being rude toward the the original poster. (I realize you may disagree about the "rude" pronouncement but that is how I saw it.)

 

Why do we do this? We actually want people to post trip reports without worrying that to do so is only an invitation to criticism. You may think it is your "responsibility" to "respond" when somebody posts something you think is not "responsible." I'm sorry, but we decided several years ago that trip reports should be respected and ethical discussions or arguments about judgment should generally take place elsewhere.

 

As you've apparently figured out, we'll allow the discussion of whether it is appropriate to climb Mt. Baker after heavy snows or whatever that you may feel is important to take place .. within limits. I'm not a moderator of this "climber's board" forum, but I can assure you that if you want to discuss the rationale behind climbing major mountains after heavy snow you will be allowed to do so.

[Choada_Boy]

Word.

[Alpinfox]

I wouldn't normally care about this sort of thing, but I've become interested in this story due to an annoying and threatening series of PMs I've received from one of the dumbshits from NWhikers.net who chose to publicly jump on this kid.

 

Supposedly what they did wrong:

 

1)The road was closed, so they had to walk a long way.

 

2)They got thirsty at one point, and didn't turn around.

 

3)They used snowshoes, not skis.

 

4)They got tired, but kept going.

 

5)It started to get dark, but they kept going.

 

6)They had some marginal weather, but kept going.

 

7)They only took one pack from high camp to summit (so presumably didn't each have avy rescue gear)

 

8)They did the climb despite a grim avalanche forecast.

 

SATURDAY AND SUNDAY

Sunny and much warmer weather is expected this weekend.

Natural and human triggered avalanches should be likely

especially on steep slopes facing the sun but possibly on

other slopes as well. Remember that natural avalanches are

Mothers Natures most direct sign of instability. Back

country travel near avalanche terrain at higher elevations

is not recommended this weekend. Overnight cooling may help

cause temporary stabilizing during the night and morning

hours.

 

The avy forecast looks like it was a legitimate concern, but they didn't mention any slides (natural/otherwise) just some ice fall off an ice cliff. They also may/may not have had reasonable level of skill or gear to deal with avy danger and crevasse rescue. It wasn't discussed in the TR that I remember.

 

The soapboxers at NWhikers then proceeded to publicly rip this kid up (for his own good!) because he was "reckless", "stupid", and is now "lucky to be alive". Also, "Layback" would "hate to have to get a call to go haul (Ryan's) body off the mountain" or something along those lines. It all sounded like ego-puffery to me.

 

 

Crabbed age and youth cannot live together:

Youth is full of pleasance, age is full of care;

Youth like summer morn, age like winter weather;

Youth like summer brave, age like winter bare.

- William Shakespeare

 

[Tom_Sjolseth]

Post the threats. Let's see em.

[Hugh Conway]

bathing, haircut, driving an Audi

[Tom_Sjolseth]

AlpinFox you chickenshit.

 

You call me out and say I want "respeck" for climbing "Flora and Gardner". I say you are the "consummate douche" because I never said anything like that, I've never acted that way, and you've never met me.

 

You told me to not use your name and I told you to kiss my ass. Kiss my ass, AlpinFox - there I said it again.

 

Then I said I would encourage you to confront me in person if you have any issues with me. I asked if I'd see you at the Climber's Picnic. If you feel threatened by confronting people with your issues in person instead of bringing them up on a bulletin board hiding behind an avatar, then that's your perssonal problem. Perhaps you shouldn't be rude to people.

[Hugh Conway]

You're kidding me. A bit of armchair quarterbacking, eh?

 

Seems to me they just simply survived the learning curve; something that I'm sure most of use have done at one point or another.

 

erm, they've done nothing to demonstrate having learned anything.\

 

dude, alpinfox, I've got your back if this gets ugly

[Dane]

Pretty much... they didn't do it in perfect, north-american, wear the most high tech gear fashion. Sort of how I always get bashed b/c i wear jeans to the crag sometimes....

 

CC.com is a great place to check local conditions...just by what is actually getting done.

 

Marc, no worry on the jeans. Seems some pretty hard Canadian ice was done early on in jeans or cords an no one died.

[Tom_Sjolseth]

And nice job baiting me into the thread. I'm done.

[eldiente]

I too got some strange emails from NW hikers guy.

[Hugh Conway]

Really. Says you. When's the last time you stuck your neck out and posted a TR?

 

http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/870842/TR_Shangri_La#Post870842

 

reading about actual climbing/skiing is as interesting as a proctologists clinical notes

[Hugh Conway]

I too got some strange emails from NW hikers guy.

 

so you aren't free for dinner on Friday?

[kevbone]

Would anyone like to offer any unsolicited advice to the dudes who climbed Baker the other day? Maybe matt will let you do so here and not on the TR. I think it's a worthy discussion.

 

 

How about a HUGE who gives a hell? Unsolicited advice. You got to be kidding?

[Alpinfox]

 

HERE is a link to the NWhikers thread where they publicly ridicule and insult the noob climber - a surefire way to show him the error of his ways right?

[marc_leclerc]

Here's some unsolicited advice: Dont' be a dumbass and give a shit about armchair quarterbacks bitching at you because you did it your own way instead of following the exact intructions in 'the book'.

[olyclimber]

AlpinFox you chickenshit.

 

You call me out and say I want "respeck" for climbing "Flora and Gardner". I say you are the "consummate douche" because I never said anything like that, I've never acted that way, and you've never met me.

 

You told me to not use your name and I told you to kiss my ass. Kiss my ass, AlpinFox - there I said it again.

 

Then I said I would encourage you to confront me in person if you have any issues with me. I asked if I'd see you at the Climber's Picnic. If you feel threatened by confronting people with your issues in person instead of bringing them up on a bulletin board hiding behind an avatar, then that's your perssonal problem. Perhaps you shouldn't be rude to people.

 

OH! OH! OH! SUDDENLY THE CLIMBERS PICNIC GOT REAL INTERESTING. TOM'S BRINGING IT!!!

[olyclimber]

I too got some strange emails from NW hikers guy.

 

This sounds interesting. I like hiking! Did he had some excellent advice?

[dberdinka]

Would anyone like to offer any unsolicited advice to the dudes who climbed Baker the other day? Maybe matt will let you do so here and not on the TR. I think it's a worthy discussion.

 

I DO! I DO!

 

A) They should climb more mountains and post more interesting TRs so I can watch everyone's panties fill up with hot sauce cause this shit is too funny.

 

B) They should also learn to ski next winter because slowshoeing is ghey among other things.

 

C) "Layback" is a very disturbed individual with far to much of his self-image wrapped up in his online interactions.

 

D) Based on their TR can anyone point out a single steep, sun-facing slope they were on that was not wind-scoured? (See related avi forecast)

 

oh...and

 

E) 99.9% of us would be way to lazy or unfit to ever get past the washout in july much less in april. So big congrats for crushing a huge approach. What is youth for if not pushing the barriers now and again?

Edited April 15, 2009 by dberdinka

[DirtyHarry]

This thread is some funny shit.

 

This dude does have the biggest backpack in the world on, though.

 

 

What you got in there, a tauntaun?!

[olyclimber]

Really. Says you. When's the last time you stuck your neck out and posted a TR?

 

http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/870842/TR_Shangri_La#Post870842

 

reading about actual climbing/skiing is as interesting as a proctologists clinical notes

 

To bad you didn't stick your neck out and share all your mistakes so the folks at NWHikers could stop by and tell you about what you did wrong. Did you wear any cotton on your trip?

[Ishmael]

you always have to carry a tauntaun to sleep in...

 

 

[olyclimber]

This thread is some funny shit.

 

This dude does have the biggest backpack in the world on, though.

 

 

What you got in there, a tauntaun?!

 

I have done some stupid stuff like that myself. One time I carried all this unnecessary gear up as "training" on hikering/climbing trips. It is the idiocy of youth. Or in my case I was just being an idiot.