Boot selection for Pickets

[jared_j]

I'm planning a trip the first week in July to the Pickets, intending to climb the Challenger Glacier and the Southeast Glacier on Fury.

 

I've got these lightweight stiff-soled boots, comparable to the popular La Sportiva Trango S EVO. I've done extensive trail hiking in them, and I don't get blistered, but I know a flexible boot would be much more comfortable.

 

I've never really tried snow/glacier climbing on a more flexible-soled boot. I am, however, curious about others' experiences trading off sole stiffness (e.g. snow climbing performance) with softer-soled boots (e.g. walking comfort).

 

Theron Welch & company opted for soft-soled boots on their big-ass (and well - documented) trip here . This is what got me thinking about the issue. That said, I've never kicked steps in a a boot other than a stiff-soled boot, and don't know how sucky it is.

 

What boots have ya'll taken back into the Pickets? What has your experience been? This will be my first time back in there, I am enthused about the challenge, and want to make prudent gear choices.

 

Edited: clarity.

Edited April 16, 2008 by jared_j

[Dan_Miller]

It would be my opinion, that during the first week of 'this' July there will still be significant snow in the Pickets, unless we have an unseasonably hot springtime. The cross country travel you will encounter in that part of the North Cascades will be just about right for your Asolo's, I'd think. They wouldn't be much different from what I'd head to the Picket's in, based upon my past travels there. (Last summer I wore my La Sportiva Trango S Evo's. Other times in the past I've worn a totally rigid soled leather boot there.) About all I'd suggest that they are fairly well broken in. As if, that's not pretty obvious!

[scottk]

I climbed the Tahoma Glacier route on Rainier last year using the Asolo Fugitive GTX : http://www.rei.com/product/706762 These boots are not designed for mountaineering and are pretty flexible.

 

The first day was a hike and I was running circles around my buddies with their heavy mountaineering boots. The second day we got into some steeper snow/ice (>45 degrees) and there were a few moments when I wished for more substantial boots.

 

In general, I would use these boots and lightweight aluminum crampons on anything that was mostly rock and/or easy to moderate snow. It would have to be pretty close to ice climbing or winter conditions before I would pull out the heavy boots.

[ericb]

Jared - I might challenge your assumption that more flexible will equal more comfortable when you are carrying a picket sized pack that many days. I've found that when carrying a heavy pack over uneven terrain, my feet actually fared better when they were protected by a more substantial sole and shank but YMMV.

[Rad]

In the Pickets, you will have a lot of x-country travel and will find yourself side-hilling on heather, scrambling on loose talus, and thrashing in the brush where you can't see your feet. For all of these, stiff is good.

 

Others have suggested stiffer boots will do better in hard snow or ice. I agree.

 

The only place I can see soft shoes being nicer is if you have a long section ON A WELL-MAINTAINED TRAIL.

 

If I were to come in from the North on the trail, I might wear tennis shoes to the end of the trail, stash the shoes in a plastic bag under a large rock nearby, and switch into boots for x-country travel. The boots will rock on the snow and x-country areas. On your return, the running shoes will feel like heaven for the last miles on the trail back to your beer.

 

Enjoy!

[layton]

I've only used tennis shoes except in winter for the past 15 years and they've worked just fine. Bring a change or two of socks and some strap on poons.

[mike1]

IMO - mid-weight boots like your Asolos would be preferable (if they are in fact comparable to the Trangos). I think they would provide you the most support for the widest range of terrain.

[ScottP]

I'm planning a trip the first week in July to the Pickets, intending to climb the Challenger Glacier and the Southeast Glacier on Fury.

(snip)

That said, I've never kicked steps in a a boot other than a stiff-soled boot, and don't know how sucky it is.

 

What boots have ya'll taken back into the Pickets? What has your experience been? This will be my first time back in there, I am enthused about the challenge, and want to make prudent gear choices.

 

Edited: clarity.

 

Seems to me that between now and July you could get out and find out how "sucky" it is kicking steps in softer boot, as opposed to relying on other peoples experiences to determine how yours will be. Based on the wide range of responses, it should be pretty obvious that each individual has their own idea of pedestrian comfort and security.

That said, my trip into the southern Pickets was done wearing a 20+ year old pair of Raichle Montagnas. They worked out just fine, as would a pair of high topped hiking boots.

[jared_j]

Yeah no shit. Surprise, surprise, a lack of consensus emerges when people are asked about their personal preferences. This has been a useful exercise, however, in finding out folks' differing strategies.

[mvs]

Hey on that trip I wore "mid range" hiking boots, Vasque Sundowners. They were perfect I thought. They had plenty of ankle support, nice for the heavy pack and sidehilling (plenty on Wiley Ridge). With the aluminum crampons you get almost as comfortable on hard snow as your friends in heavy boots. Really, what percentage of the total trip time will you be on the kind of snow where you wish you had heavier boots? I'll bet ~10%, and that's too low to justify. However you do it, have fun!

 

The only time we had unhappiness over the light boots was downclimbing a 50 degree ice slope, which in hindsight was unnecessary and probably not something you'd have to do either.

[Blake]

There seems to be a this belief that the pickets are somehow inherently different from the other parts of the range, and I think this is mistaken. The same shoes that work on steep heather, talus, snow, rock, and dirt elsewhere will work there. Ditto with other gear, except more food/fuel requirements perhaps make weight savigns elsewhere more important. Some folks feel that they need stiffer/heavier shoes to handle packs with food for 3+ days. Personally this has not been an issue. (maybe I have freakishly fat kankles?) However, once you are climbing technical rock, I think there's a huge benefit to having boots/shoes in your pack that are as light as possible.

 

My personal preference would be similar to Mike Layton's... some kind of tennis shoe or trail runner with strap-on crampons. I've had no problem on snow and moderatley steep glacial ice (short steps.)

 

I like these quite a bit.. they are the high op version of Montrail's "Hardrock" trail-running shoe.

 

 

Montrail Namche

 

[wayne]

Ok, Now I have to say something.

 

How long are you planning on traveling in snow, And how steep?

That is what I feel it comes down to.

So it is a seasonal( early---> Boots)

Or a technical/ light / late-season thing---> Tennis shoes

 

[ivan]

i tried copying the cascade crazy boys w/ their damned tennies when i first got out here - after repeatedly practically breaking my ankles on approaches, i figured i'm much better off always wearing my trangos - they're as light as boots get, and can easily climb technical rock to 5.8 or so, so they earn their keep

[wayne]

Dont get me wrong. You dont want to carry a monster pack with t-shoes. They are part of the ultra-light thing. Your pack should weigh less than 30lbs,

[jared_j]

Wayne,

Thanks for the qualification. I don't anticipate going super light, and I'm allowing myself 4 or 5 days back there (e.g. a week total) to be able to wait out a day or so of bad weather if it arrives. My team's risk/comfort preferences will make it tough to get my pack weight down below 40lbs, and realistically it'll be more like 45 lbs starting out.

 

I will be going the first week of July. Barring crazy warming in the next two months, I anticipate plenty of snow. Also, as I said, the desired routes are Challenger Glacier and SE glacier on Fury. Going in up Eiley / Wiley ridge, leaving Access Creek.

 

Really this was a question about boot sole stiffness. I've no interest in taking tennies/approach shoes for the entire trip. I don't have a huge quiver of N! boots to choose from, but was open to the idea of purchasing some softer soled boots (e.g. Vasque Sundowners).

 

Thanks for all the input, folks. I'll likely go with the boots I have for support of the pack, and may bring along some tennies for the trail walking portion as has been suggested.

[Rad]

Jared,

 

Unless you're doing pennance for some heinous deeds, carrying a 45lb pack into the Pickets is an exercise in masochism. Listen to Wayne. He's been many times.

 

Check out the random tips thread in the main forum for lots of good ideas about how to travel lighter.

 

Challenger is still on my list, but I understand the rock section is quite easy. Save weight for that by climbing the 5.7 in your regular boots/shoes, bring a set of stoppers, a couple of hexes, a few slings and biners, and a light rope. You could probably leave the rock shoes, chalk!!, full rack, and fat rope at home.

[TrogdortheBurninator]

I have tried the tennis shoes with strap on crampons thing a few times, and found it incredibly uncomfortable. I ended buying some garmont vetta plus http://www.trailspace.com/gear/garmont/vetta-plus/. They are about 3/4 pound heavier per pair than a midtop soft soled shoe (like the ones Blake posted). They accept semi-auto crampons (saves a bit of weight) and the sole is sufficiently stiff to kick steps while still being ok on rock. The ankle gives a very wide range of motion. Biggest downside is they are ridiculously non-waterproof.

[jared_j]

I think that lack of water resistance is going to be endemic in many of the lightweight shoe options. Layton suggested bringing extra socks... I'm guessing you just let your feet be wet on the snow, then put the dry socks on once you're done / stopping to sleep or whatever.

 

[JayB]

There seems to be a this belief that the pickets are somehow inherently different from the other parts of the range, and I think this is mistaken. The same shoes that work on steep heather, talus, snow, rock, and dirt elsewhere will work there. Ditto with other gear, except more food/fuel requirements perhaps make weight savigns elsewhere more important. Some folks feel that they need stiffer/heavier shoes to handle packs with food for 3+ days. Personally this has not been an issue. (maybe I have freakishly fat kankles?) However, once you are climbing technical rock, I think there's a huge benefit to having boots/shoes in your pack that are as light as possible.

 

My personal preference would be similar to Mike Layton's... some kind of tennis shoe or trail runner with strap-on crampons. I've had no problem on snow and moderatley steep glacial ice (short steps.)

 

I like these quite a bit.. they are the high op version of Montrail's "Hardrock" trail-running shoe.

 

 

Montrail Namche

 

How have these worked out for you on overnights? Just got a pair in the mail today, as a long overdue gap-filler between the approach shoes and the ten-year-old Makalu's - and I'm hoping they'll work well for day-pack or light-overnight sized loads.

[DirtyHarry]

You should wear plastic double boots with a metal shank, knee-high gaiters, shorts over poly-pro, a sun hat with flaps on the back, and glacier glasses.

[olyclimber]

don't forget the tauntaun.

[Dechristo]

anything but barefoot is pussy fare.

[Blake]

There seems to be a this belief that the pickets are somehow inherently different from the other parts of the range, and I think this is mistaken. The same shoes that work on steep heather, talus, snow, rock, and dirt elsewhere will work there. Ditto with other gear, except more food/fuel requirements perhaps make weight savigns elsewhere more important. Some folks feel that they need stiffer/heavier shoes to handle packs with food for 3+ days. Personally this has not been an issue. (maybe I have freakishly fat kankles?) However, once you are climbing technical rock, I think there's a huge benefit to having boots/shoes in your pack that are as light as possible.

 

My personal preference would be similar to Mike Layton's... some kind of tennis shoe or trail runner with strap-on crampons. I've had no problem on snow and moderatley steep glacial ice (short steps.)

 

I like these quite a bit.. they are the high op version of Montrail's "Hardrock" trail-running shoe.

 

 

Montrail Namche

 

How have these worked out for you on overnights? Just got a pair in the mail today, as a long overdue gap-filler between the approach shoes and the ten-year-old Makalu's - and I'm hoping they'll work well for day-pack or light-overnight sized loads.

 

They worked great for my uses last summer. They aren't much heavier than most tennis shoes, and lighter than some trail runners. This is really nice for long routes that you wear rock shoes, and carry your boots. They will keep your feet dry for a while on snow, not all day. After a summer they were pretty trashed, but i used them frequently. I have since coated the seams/stitching/etc in Seam Grip, but should have done this when I bought them.

 

 

[JayB]

Cool. Thanks for the feedback - sounds like they'll be just the ticket. I think I'll follow your lead on the seam grip.