TIBET

[mattp]

You are welcome, Jay. Next time I consider having a political discussion with you I guess I should simply assume you are going to put words in my mouth and argue with what I didn't say.

 

You seem to agree with my premise that the chances for a free Tibet are pretty slim and I don't hear you questioning my doubt that the U.S. government is going to want to push China too hard over this issue - or the reasons why I think not. So what do you do? Make up a bunch of BS that I didn't say and scoff at it.

 

Now that we've cleared that up, How about this: dmuja is absolutely right that the Chinese suck. You can argue with that, can't you?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

You are welcome, Jay. Next time I consider having a political discussion with you I guess I should simply assume you are going to put words in my mouth and argue with what I didn't say.

 

pot. kettle. black.

 

 

[Dechristo]

no shit

[rob]

I heard the dalai lama can shoot rainbows out of his ass. I'm gonna go see him in April, I wonder if it's true?

[Matt Kidd]

In the words of my Anarchist cousin, "I don't see what the big deal is about the Dalai Lama - he's just a fucking aristocrat!"

[Hugh Conway]

I heard the dalai lama can shoot rainbows out of his ass. I'm gonna go see him in April, I wonder if it's true?

 

It lie from medieval society of ignorant sheep herders.

 

Han Chinese fah superior; Central Committee shoot sunshine and rainbows out of ass!

[Dechristo]

I heard the dalai lama can shoot rainbows out of his ass. I'm gonna go see him in April, I wonder if it's true?

 

depends on the aerosol quantity and the angle to the sun emanating from the great Han orifice.

[JayB]

You are welcome, Jay. Next time I consider having a political discussion with you I guess I should simply assume you are going to put words in my mouth and argue with what I didn't say.

 

You seem to agree with my premise that the chances for a free Tibet are pretty slim and I don't hear you questioning my doubt that the U.S. government is going to want to push China too hard over this issue - or the reasons why I think not. So what do you do? Make up a bunch of BS that I didn't say and scoff at it.

 

Now that we've cleared that up, How about this: dmuja is absolutely right that the Chinese suck. You can argue with that, can't you?

 

Strange sensitivities on display here.

 

I think that the ideology that the PRC was founded on sucks in a massive way, that transferring control of all economic assets to the state in service of the said ideology guaranteed the totalitarian control of the population, and that the resulting state's treatment of its own people between roughly 1945 and 1975 amounts to one of the most monstrous and shameful episodes in all of recorded history.

 

Since the market reforms initiated since the late 1970s, the balance of power between the state and the people has been shifting, and I think that now it's at least possible to wonder whether the people depend on the state for their existence, or if the opposite is true. As the balance of power has shifted between the people and the party, the state has become much more sensitive to both internal and external criticisms, its conduct has been tempered by a moderation that - while calculating and self-serving - would have been unthinkable and unnecessary when the state held all economic power. If present trends continue, I expect that the conditions in China will continue to evolve in directions that force the party to become less repressive and brutal over time. I think that this kind of political evolution constitutes the only real hope that the people of Tibet have for realizing the changes that they seek, and that anyone who cares about their plight should bear these realities in mind.

[tomtom]

Now that we've cleared that up, How about this: dmuja is absolutely right that the Chinese suck. You can argue with that, can't you?

 

I know a number of Chinese folks who don't suck.

[mattp]

If present trends continue, I expect that the conditions in China will continue to evolve in directions that force the party to become less repressive and brutal over time. I think that this kind of political evolution constitutes the only real hope that the people of Tibet have for realizing the changes that they seek, ...

 

Lets hope so.

[dmuja]

Office of the Dalai Lama's Press Release

dalailama.com[Wednesday, March 19, 2008 00:33]

PRESS RELEASE

Contacts: Chhime R. Chhoekyapa, Secretary Mobile + 91 (09816021879)

Tenzin Taklha, Joint Secretary

Mobile + 91 (09816021813)

link

PRESS RELEASE

 

I would like to take this opportunity to express my deep gratitude to world leaders and the international community for their concern over the recent sad turn of events in Tibet and for their attempts to persuade the Chinese authorities to exercise restraint in dealing with the demonstrations.

 

Since the Chinese Government has accused me of orchestrating these protests in Tibet, I call for a thorough investigation by a respected body, which should include Chinese representatives, to look into these allegations. Such a body would need to visit Tibet, the traditional Tibetan areas outside the Tibet Autonomous Region, and also the Central Tibetan Administration here in India. In order for the international community, and especially the more than one billion Chinese people who do not have access to uncensored information, to find out what is really going on in Tibet, it would be tremendously helpful if representatives of the international media also undertook such investigations.

 

Whether it was intended or not, I believe that a form of cultural genocide has taken place in Tibet, where the Tibetan identity has been under constant attack. Tibetans have been reduced to an insignificant minority in their own land as a result of the huge transfer of non-Tibetans into Tibet. The distinctive Tibetan cultural heritage with its characteristic language, customs and traditions is fading away. Instead of working to unify its nationalities, the Chinese government discriminates against these minority nationalities, the Tibetans among them.

 

It is common knowledge that Tibetan monasteries, which constitute our principal seats of learning, besides being the repository of Tibetan Buddhist culture, have been severely reduced in both in number and population. In those monasteries that do still exist, serious study of Tibetan Buddhism is no longer allowed; in fact, even admission to these centres of learning is being strictly regulated. In reality, there is no religious freedom in Tibet. Even to call for a little more freedom is to risk being labeled a separatist. Nor is there any real autonomy in Tibet, even though these basic freedoms are guaranteed by the Chinese constitution.

 

I believe the demonstrations and protests taking place in Tibet are a spontaneous outburst of public resentment built up by years of repression in defiance of authorities that are oblivious to the sentiments of the local populace. They mistakenly believe that further repressive measures are the way to achieve their declared aim of long-term unity and stability.

 

On our part, we remain committed to taking the Middle Way approach and pursuing a process of dialogue in order to find a mutually beneficial solution to the Tibetan issue.

 

With these points in mind, I also seek the international community’s support for our efforts to resolve Tibet’s problems through dialogue, and I urge them to call upon the Chinese leadership to exercise the utmost restraint in dealing with the current disturbed situation and to treat those who are being arrested properly and fairly.

 

Dalai Lama

Dharamsala March 18, 2008

[Matt Kidd]

 

I think that the ideology that the PRC was founded on sucks in a massive way, that transferring control of all economic assets to the state in service of the said ideology guaranteed the totalitarian control of the population, and that the resulting state's treatment of its own people between roughly 194(9) and 1975 amounts to one of the most monstrous and shameful episodes in all of recorded history.

 

That's not the ideology that you're talking about, that's the practice. The ideology was based upon agrarian revolution and the emancipation of the peasant class (as opposed to the proletariat). This Mao's weak attempt at claiming the Chinese revolution was Marxist. The ideology was based upon helping the peasants.

Your evaluation of the consequences seems pretty fair to me, though the largest number of deaths resulted from foolish economics not murder.

I'd argue that China is returning in many ways to its Imperial model. Keeping the control politically, but interfering less in economics. The problem as I see it is that that the liberalization going on undermines their ideology, and thus their political legitimacy. Makes them all the more likely to respond harshly to political attacks (read: Tibet, other religious/political groups, and the possible consequences if Taiwan ever declares independence). Just my thoughts...

[JayB]

 

 

I'd agree about the risks of the party lashing out for the reasons that you stated, but I'm hoping that people in Taiwan, Tibet, and elsewhere are savvy enough to take this into account in their dealings with the Chinese.

 

I think they also need to factor in quite a few other variables that affect the way that the average Chinese person thinks if they want their dealings with the Chinese state to be constructive.

[StevenSeagal]

Interview with the Dalai Lama today

[dmuja]

"..The Olympics have been so upstaged by complaints about China's human rights record that the central government has reportedly invited several British and U.S. public relations agencies to discuss how to better improve its image..

 

Link

 

PR firm: "Gentlemen ahh,, comrades, try this.. STOP KILLING, TORTURING, IMPRISONING PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T THINK LIKE YOU! We have concluded that some improvement in your image will follow."

 

 

[No. 13 Baby]

Nothing says Olympics Fever quite like jack-booted thugs toting billy clubs.

 

[TREETOAD]

I wonder what chucky heston had to say about Tibet?

[ivan]

I wonder what chucky heston had to say about Tibet?

"it's made out of people - people!"

[dmuja]

 

I can't speak for Chuck H but I will say this..

 

We non-Tibetans should really thank grog, Buddha or whatever and take note of the current situation regarding Tibet and learn from it if possible. In case we have forgotten, China is still a communist state - and it is on the rise. Communist states operate on 2 fundamental principles, namely force (re: control, domination, violence) and propaganda (re: lies, indoctrination, "brain washing"). Both are on full display at this time in the "Tibetan Autonomous Region". If the U.S. continues to go in its current direction (decline), those of us who have bought into the West's naiveté with regard to China's "modernization", or worse yet have directly bought into China's propaganda in this regard are in for a very rude awakening. The "right" has it's eyes closed because they are salivating at the prospect of doing business in the vast China marketplace. The "left" has it's eyes closed because it sympathizes with socialist politics. Neither a traditionally right nor left approach will serve us adequately when dealing with China - they are both too self serving and shortsighted.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I can't speak for Chuck H but I will say this..

 

We non-Tibetans should really thank grog, Buddha or whatever and take note of the current situation regarding Tibet and learn from it if possible. In case we have forgotten, China is still a communist state - and it is on the rise. Communist states operate on 2 fundamental principles, namely force (re: control, domination, violence) and propaganda (re: lies, indoctrination, "brain washing"). Both are on full display at this time in the "Tibetan Autonomous Region". If the U.S. continues to go in its current direction (decline), those of us who have bought into the West's naiveté with regard to China's "modernization", or worse yet have directly bought into China's propaganda in this regard are in for a very rude awakening. The "right" has it's eyes closed because they are salivating at the prospect of doing business in the vast China marketplace. The "left" has it's eyes closed because it sympathizes with socialist politics. Neither a traditionally right nor left approach will serve us adequately when dealing with China - they are both too self serving and shortsighted.

 

I can't believe that I actually agree 100% with something you wrote! Very well put!

 

[ivan]

what is your worst fear of china? do you fear that they will become like the ussr in the 20s and 30s and promise a world wide exportation of communism and the overthrow of all capitalist nations?

 

i detest what the chinese have done in tibet, but how is it qualitativly different from what we did in annexing all of the american west? the powerful alwasy fuck the weak, and we americans have been quick to use the 2 fundemental forces you refer to (force and propaganda) plenty in our past.

[dmuja]

what is your worst fear of china? do you fear that they will become like the ussr in the 20s and 30s and promise a world wide exportation of communism and the overthrow of all capitalist nations?

 

i detest what the chinese have done in tibet, but how is it qualitativly different from what we did in annexing all of the american west? the powerful alwasy fuck the weak, and we americans have been quick to use the 2 fundemental forces you refer to (force and propaganda) plenty in our past.

 

Ivan, the "promise of a world wide exportation of communism and the overthrow of all capitalist nations" is a central tenet of communism. They believe in and teach a doctrine of continuous and violent revolution. The current twist is simply that they are using economics as the point of their spear. Back in my twenties as an dorky politico anarchist type, I had "friends" who were commies. In a moment of candor one once told me that "should our revolution actually succeed here, we would of coarse have to kill you because you're politics are poison" (he was not smiling when he said this btw).

 

Communism is always something to fear. And I consider myself far left for the most part.

[kevbone]

Who is the moron who allowed the Olympic Games to be held in China in the first place?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Who is the moron who allowed the Olympic Games to be held in China in the first place?

 

Well, the precedent was set in 1936.

[billcoe]

Can someone please translate whatever message China is trying to convey into something that I might better be able to understand, like Yiddish or that Bushman clicking language? As it stands, I have no idea whether China is seriously claiming that anyone who dares to lend a helping hand can expect to suffer hair loss and tooth decay as a result or if it's simply the case that he is a bacillus in the devious gut of teetotalism. To organize my discussion, I suggest that we take one step back in the causal chain and bring a fresh perspective and new ideas to the current debate.

 

Perhaps one day we will live in a world where good people are not troubled by fear of nasty, insufferable loons. Until that day arrives, however, we must spread the word that China attracts chthonic, recalcitrant wisenheimers to his lynch mob by telling them that his termagant peuplade is a benign and charitable agency. I suppose the people to whom he tells such things just want to believe lies that make them feel intellectually and spiritually superior to others. Whether or not that's the case, I must admit that I've read only a small fraction of China's writings. (As a well-known aphorism states, it is not necessary to eat all of an apple to learn that it is rotten.) Nevertheless, I've read enough of China's writings to know that China argues that it's okay for him to indulge his every whim and lust without regard for anyone else or for society as a whole. To maintain this thesis, China naturally has had to shovel away a mountain of evidence, which he does by the desperate expedient of claiming that truth is whatever your grievance group says it is. On a more pedestrian level, someone has been giving China's brain a very thorough washing and now China is trying to do the same to us.

 

I unequivocally hope you're not being misled by the "new China". Only his methods and tactics have changed. China's goal is still the same: to pass off all sorts of self-absorbed and obviously pudibund stuff on others as a so-called "inner experience". That's why I'm telling you that any rational argument must acknowledge this. China's boisterous values, naturally, do not.

 

Is that such a difficult concept? Many people are shocked when I tell them that China takes feudalism to bed with him at night and snuggles up to it as if it were a big, fuzzy teddy bear. And I'm shocked that so many people are shocked. You see, I had thought everybody already knew that China presents one face to the public, a face that tells people what they want to hear. Then, in private, he devises new schemes to conduct business in a neurotic, whiney way.

 

I can't stress this enough, but we ought to advance freedom in countries strangled by tyranny. That'll make China think once -- I would have said "twice" but I don't see any indication that he has previously given any thought to the matter -- before trying to make a fetish of the virtues of sanctimonious academicism. Forgive me if I ramble; I'm really upset, as I think you can tell. While his semi-literate ramblings might be of some interest to specialists in child communication, I recently informed China that his spin doctors infringe upon our most important constitutional rights. China said he'd "look further into the matter." Well, not too much further. After all, if he is going to retard the free and natural economic development of various countries' indigenous population, then he should at least have the self-respect to remind himself of a few things: First, only a fool can believe that self-deceiving televangelists are easily housebroken. And second, I cannot believe how many actual, physical, breathing, thinking people have fallen for his subterfuge. I'm absolutely stunned.

 

As will become apparent in the coming days, China has a natural talent for complaining. He can find any aspect of life and whine about it for hours upon hours. If he gets his way, I might very well jump in the lake. It is deeply unfortunate that innocent children have been brainwashed by China's intemperate, haughty utterances, because all five of my senses indicate that China places his indelible imprimatur upon a form of Stalinism that is fundamentally, pervasively, and inescapably brutish. But let's not lose sight of the larger, more important issue here: China's violent, lawless endeavors. My argument gets a little complicated here. You don't have to say anything specifically about him for him to start attacking you. All you have to do is dare to imply that we should point out that the emperor has no clothes on.

 

Some people have compared incontinent perverts to sophomoric dolts. I would like to take the comparison one step further: There is only one way to stop China from breaking down our communities. We must make out of fools, wise people; out of fanatics, men of sense; out of idlers, workers; out of empty-headed peddlers of snake-oil remedies, people who are willing to avoid the extremes of a pessimistic naturalism and an optimistic humanism by combining the truths of both. Then together we can inculcate in the reader an inquisitive spirit and a skepticism about beliefs that China's cronies take for granted. Together we can show the world that bad-tempered proponents of revanchism often take earthworms or similar small animals and impale them on a pin to enjoy watching them twist and writhe as they slowly die. Similarly, China enjoys watching respectable people twist and writhe whenever he threatens to let down ladders that the unpatriotic, quasi-unprincipled, and xenophobic scramble to climb. To put it crudely, time has only reinforced that conviction -- and China knows it. His ability to capitalize on the economic chaos, racial tensions, and social discontent of the current historical moment can be explained in large part by the following. China will open the gates of Hell as soon as our backs are turned. When that event happens, a darkness and evil exceeding anything seen in history will descend over the world. I can hope only that before it does, people will reverse the devolutionary course that China has set for us. Only then can we win the culture war and save this country.

 

What we're seeing is a domino effect of events that started with China stating that it's okay to leave the educational and emotional needs of our children in the corrupt hands of sneaky spielers. That prevarication incited his hirelings to deny minorities a cultural voice. Dour sideshow barkers reacted, in turn, by preventing me from sleeping soundly at night. The next domino to fall, not surprisingly, was a widespread increase in exclusionism, and that's the event that galvanized me to tell everyone that China possesses no significant intellectual skills whatsoever and has no interest in erudition. Heck, he can't even spell or define "erudition", much less achieve it.

 

China's lies come in many forms. Some of his lies are in the form of excuses. Others are in the form of plaints. Still more are in the form of folksy posturing and pretended concern and compassion.

 

Easy as it may seem to halt the destructive process that is carrying our civilization toward extinction, it is far more difficult to challenge China's snippy assumptions about merit. Perhaps if China thought about it, he'd realize that in these days of political correctness and the changing of how history is taught in schools to fulfill a particular agenda, it's no secret that it is saddening to have to tell him that he is the most impolitic, psychotic conspiracy theorist witnessed by the history of mankind. And here, I claim, lies a clue to the intellectual vacuum so gapingly apparent in his pleas. Aside from the fact that he works like gravity by night and by day, gaining a little today and a little tomorrow and advancing his noiseless step like a thief until he manages to numb the public to the autism and injustice in mainstream politics, the basal lie that underlies all of his pestiferous modes of thought is that we can stop cynicism merely by permitting government officials entrée into private homes to search for noisome roustabouts. Translation: We should abandon the institutionalized and revered concept of democracy. I doubt you need any help from me to identify the supreme idiocy of those views but you should nevertheless be aware that China always gives noncommittal answers to questions. I'll go further: Anyone who was sober for more than an hour or two during the last five years knows that China revels in his salacious campaign to smear and defame me. Whatever weight we accord to that fact, we may be confident that he likes thinking thoughts that aren't burdensome and that feel good. That's why China accuses me of being brassbound whenever I state that the hysteria and witch-hunts fueled by his rantings will paralyze any serious or firm decision and thereby become responsible for the weak and half-hearted execution of even the most necessary measures quicker than you can double-check the spelling of "phytosociological". All right, I'll admit that I have a sharp tongue and sometimes write with a bit of a poison pen but the fact remains that I find China's memoirs highly insulting. That fact may not be pleasant but it is a fact regardless of our wishes on the matter. Lastly, I can't end this letter without mentioning that China is a scion of sexist, hectoring jerks.

 

(this letter was randomly generated and not been read, reviewed or written by the author above)