Find the Bolts Dawg:

[billcoe]

I was looking at Spyorks recent pictures of Mideast Crisis on rches in Yosemite. I was thinking of Raindawgs continual "shock"" and "moral outrage" of the "environmental destruction" caused by this kind of "travesty."It was recently re-bolted with shiney new 3/8"ers, despite being on public land. Pics of this "outrage" and "enviromental atrocity" as Dawg calls it are right here, taken from as close as you can get: the base, telephoto.

 

Find the offensive bolts Dawg:

 

 

 

 

BTW, in case you are not thinking in terms of real "Environmental atrocities", think in terms of things you CAN see from outer space, including the recently added retro-bulldozed pull out by Manure Pile or the large earthmoving endeavors on Mt Rainier: you can see all that crap via Google Earth and more much more clearly than you can find a bolt in any of these pics.

 

Let me know how many bolts you see in this "shocking picture".

 

______________________________________________________________

 

BTW, lil Dawg says

 

lil dawg:

 

Again in case you missed it:

 

 

 

[dmuja]

 

 

Yosemite climbing ranger, Jesse McGahey, attributes the rise in garbage to “newbie” climbers coming straight from the climbing gym — and lacking wilderness ethic skills. He’s on a mission to educate and inform new climbers, while cleaning up Yosemite’s favorite climbing crags.

 

Last month, volunteers packed out 900 pounds of abandoned rope, snack wrappers and toilet paper strewn around some of Yosemite’s most cherished crags. As neophyte rock jocks head to national parks to test their skills in the great outdoors, some are breaking the wilderness ethic that has long governed the sport.

 

“In the ’70s, people used to teach each other how to climb outdoors,” said McGahey, 29. “Now a lot of people come out of the gym and head straight for the woods, with no idea of what they’ll find there.”

 

Maybe climbing gyms should start offering courses in wilderness ethics and appreciation…

 

link

 

coarse, Im not dawg, I just play his bitch on teh interweb

[Off_White]

Jesse attributes things this way because of his feelings and opinions, not necessarily any sort of objective study based in reality. It could just be that there are more people climbing. Trash, ropes, toilet paper, balls of tape (trad climbers!), and other dreck are nothing new. It could be something else, without any science involved we're just making up stories based on our beliefs, supported by selective observations that reinforce our biases. They've been having cleanups since forever. To say that it's the fault of gym climbers, many of whom have grown up with more environmental awareness than anyone who came of age in the 70's, is more about reinforcing one's higher opinion of oneself as compared to "those people" than anything else.

[Dechristo]

Summumma-bitches are all Oblio-s.

[JosephH]

Bill, what's objectional about bolting has little to do with 'the environment' in any comparative sense. And your 'scale' and 'associative' arguments are completely bogus on context alone. Bhopal and Chernobyl have nothing whatsoever to do with bolting or any context bolting arises in. And the fact other human disasters of various scales occur every day does not excuse or make out-of-control bolting any less a disaster in the context of climbing where it occurs.

 

Your arguments could be just as easily excuse any travesty - hell, why worry about a rape in Portland when there's genocide in the Sudan? The only context they share in common is injustice and tragedy. It's a specious and self-serving mode of argument on the face of it. Look, the idea that you have no problem with the level of bolting going on is surely your own business. But, your projection that a laissez faire, judeo-christian 'god-put-it-all-for-us-to-exploit' approach to rock is somehow acceptable, or even desirable, simply because bolts are flying and it works for you no doubt keeps you in fine company, but it is certainly not a sentiment shared by all.

 

To be honest, I don't really give a damn if I end up a minority of one for my views on bolting and likewise don't give a damn how unpopular those views are. They were, are, and will remain my views on climbing and respect for rock - clearly arcane and out-dated ideas in a consumptive age where convenience and community [self] service is all the rage.

 

 

[JosephH]

To say that it's the fault of gym climbers, many of whom have grown up with more environmental awareness than anyone who came of age in the 70's, is more about reinforcing one's higher opinion of oneself as compared to "those people" than anything else.

 

It's pretty clear these days, whether you're talking climbing, mountain biking, or skiing, the 'many' folks of the generations you speak of, and who otherwise claim to be 'environmentalists', are in reality blatant anti-environemental consumers when it comes to anything that might impinge on their recreational activities.

[JayB]

Jesse attributes things this way because of his feelings and opinions, not necessarily any sort of objective study based in reality. It could just be that there are more people climbing. Trash, ropes, toilet paper, balls of tape (trad climbers!), and other dreck are nothing new. It could be something else, without any science involved we're just making up stories based on our beliefs, supported by selective observations that reinforce our biases. They've been having cleanups since forever. To say that it's the fault of gym climbers, many of whom have grown up with more environmental awareness than anyone who came of age in the 70's, is more about reinforcing one's higher opinion of oneself as compared to "those people" than anything else.

 

Yes.

[Off_White]

Joseph, the older generation has been complaining about the general decline and overall failings of the younger one at least since Plato. Properly interpreted, I bet there's a cave painting in France that expresses this as well.

[kevbone]

[billcoe]

Bill, what's objectional about bolting has little to do with 'the environment' in any comparative sense. And your 'scale' and 'associative' arguments are completely bogus on context alone. Bhopal and Chernobyl have nothing whatsoever to do with bolting or any context bolting arises in. And the fact other human disasters of various scales occur every day does not excuse or make out-of-control bolting any less a disaster in the context of climbing where it occurs.

 

Your arguments could be just as easily excuse any travesty - hell, why worry about a rape in Portland when there's genocide in the Sudan? The only context they share in common is injustice and tragedy. It's a specious and self-serving mode of argument on the face of it. Look, the idea that you have no problem with the level of bolting going on is surely your own business. But, your projection that a laissez faire, judeo-christian 'god-put-it-all-for-us-to-exploit' approach to rock is somehow acceptable, or even desirable, simply because bolts are flying and it works for you no doubt keeps you in fine company, but it is certainly not a sentiment shared by all.

 

To be honest, I don't really give a damn if I end up a minority of one for my views on bolting and likewise don't give a damn how unpopular those views are. They were, are, and will remain my views on climbing and respect for rock - clearly arcane and out-dated ideas in a consumptive age where convenience and community [self] service is all the rage.

 

 

Thank you. Nice to know where people stand. Your false assumptions about my beliefs and rudeness will have you standing over there with Raindawg

 

not with me.

 

Thank you

[kevbone]

Just so raindawg knows who Bill Coe is and where he stands. Bill put up at least 4 new routes at a local crag this last summer. NO BOLTS. Not even anchor bolts.

[billcoe]

Just so raindawg knows who Bill Coe is and where he stands. Bill put up at least 4 new routes at a local crag this last summer. NO BOLTS. Not even anchor bolts.

 

Thanks Kevin. Nice to see someone knows what I'm about. :kisss:

 

[Off_White]

You're just about bald, aren't you?

[billcoe]

My wife says I'm losing the hair that remains, as you can see in my Avatar pic there:-)

 

Why do you say that Doug?

[Off_White]

Nice to see someone knows what I'm about.

 

you're just about bald, aren't you?

 

You know, just a little play on words, free association, you never know what pops out. I'm not prejudiced or anything, some of my best friends are bald.

[Stefan]

bouldering is still the truest sense of climbing.

 

its just you and the rock baby!

 

crash pads are aid.

[underworld]

its just you and the rock baby!

 

 

and sticky shoes

and costco quantities of chalk

and hemp bienies

and...

[Bug]

In the eighties there was a guy who hung out in JT and bouldered without shoes. He went through a lot of chalk and Copehagen tho.

[archenemy]

I'm bald.

[kevbone]

bouldering is still the truest sense of climbing.

 

 

I so disagree.

[JosephH]

Bill, so let me see if I've got this straight...

 

You post up a thread taunting Raindawg using a specious argument about bolting and the 'environment', which itself comes after any number of threads on several climbing forums where you repeatedly defend bolting as being acceptable, desirable, and no big deal 'environmentally' speaking. So now, somehow, I'm rude for surmising from your various postings and 'poke-in-the-eye' drill signature that you think bolting away is a-ok. Becuse if that's not your view and opinion then I'd say you have a damn peculiar way when on-line of expressing whatever your opinion really is to people whom don't know you other than through your posts - which are decidedly and consistently pro-bolt.

 

The worst-case conclusion one can take from them on face value is you have made the leap from rock as something having value as it is, in its own right, to rock as just another canvas or commodity waiting for a human to work and consume it. That view is entirely consistent with the core of the Judeo-Christian belief god put it all here for us to use and consume. The best-case interpretation I can envision from them is you just have a laissez faire attitude of 'whatever' when it comes to folks bolting away. That's also a pretty common attitude these days among a lot of older climbers and one I personally find hard not to see as simply 'not making waves', 'fitting-in', and 'going-with-the-flow'. Hell, some even go so far as to simply rewrite LNT, clean climbing, and the seventies in general out of history as either 'didn't really happen' or 'was just a few sporadic and inconsistent folks' - nothing could be farther from the truth.

 

But, it's clear that some of us actually still holding to and deriving value from those 'ancient' beliefs is a pain in the ass. And my god, to actually question the overwhelming [uninformed] 'common wisdom' and [risk-free] majority opinion? Gadzooks, man! Are you crazy? Clearly, but then with via ferratas just beginning to [predictably] infect the US, maybe not so crazy. And make no mistake, via ferratas will be spread using the exact same entitlement argument which lies at the foundation of sport climbing. And I'd say we haven't begun to see your 'environmental' argument played out in further justifying them (nope, can't see that via ferrata from space or google earth). I'm betting it's only a matter of time before someone, somewhere makes an ADA access claim for a via ferrata on public land using the cables on Half Dome as precedent and we'll be off and running - and they'll be quoting arguments like yours in their court briefs.

 

So, I'd say either be clearer about what you mean, or be careful what you wish for, because you do have a lot of influence around here. That, and don't light fires under other people in spray if you don't really care for the heat...

 

 

[RuMR]

oh stfu up already....

[kevbone]

Are you saying this is bad? JH, have you been on the cables?

 

 

[sexual_chocolate]

I'm bald.

 

i'm horny.

[denalidave]

Are you saying this is bad? JH, have you been on the cables?

 

 

Nothing like the great outdoors for some peace and solitude.