GPS Thread

[billcoe]

What do you use, why did you pick it, how is it working for you. I'm in the market, and like to see a discussion amongst folks I trust (generally:-).

 

Especially interested if anyone has the Delorme Earthmate GPS PN-20 W/ their new reworked Topo USA 7.0 software.

 

Delorme not only has better maps than Garmin, but you don't have to pay extra for them either and I think I want (I know I don't NEED one, got along so far without it, so WANT is the correct word there) the high res topo software. My bro has been using an older Garmin Etrex (low res screen) that he uploads to National Geographic maps at home to track where he's been wandering, which have the 1/24000 res like the Delorme. He's all over the woods with it all the time too. He'll put more miles on in a weekend than some of us all year. It's sick. He usually is working in the woods too. However, he lives a long way from me though or I'd have him teach me how to do all that. He doesn't know jack squat about the newer products on the market I asked him.

 

As it is, easy of use would be on my list, and I think Garmin is that and the Delorme isn't.

 

Otherwise, how about the current Garmin 60csx and 76 blah blah?

 

Has anyone tried any of these products? What do you use them for and do you generally even find them useful?

[AlpineK]

I'd like to hear some views on this subject too.

[olyclimber]

i have a GPS, but i don't use it.

 

but if i was shopping for one i'd get one that took regular batteries and carry extras (lithiums), and stay away from models with the battery built in that needs recharging. you can always use rechargeable batteries, but you want some backup power if it is dead when you need it most.

[kevbone]

i have a GPS, but i don't use it.

 

Me too!

[Hugh Conway]

but if i was shopping for one i'd get one that took regular batteries and carry extras (lithiums), and stay away from models with the battery built in that needs recharging. you can always use rechargeable batteries, but you want some backup power if it is dead when you need it most.

 

Depending on the GPS you can pickup extra rechargeable batteries for ~$15 on Amazon.com. More hrs/oz from rechargeables.

 

I had a GPS (well, 3). I never used them and sold them all.

[trad_guy]

Hello billcoe-

Here is a page I wrote recently, after the new Garmin eTrex-H came on the market:

 

Google: Choose a GPS for mountaineering and the backcountry

http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/FAQ_Best_GPS.htm

 

The concept is that a proven, simple GPS that gives you UTM Coordinates, a USGS Quad topo map or equal and a base plate compass, should be used together.

 

The three together cost $136. Buy National Geographic's TOPO for $99. for your computer and you are all set.

 

Carry a common digital cell phone in the Oregon Cascades in case you become stranded because of weather, an injury to yourself or a companion or you are lost because you do not know how to use the three tools together.

 

Carry a new Spot Satellite Messenger if you will be out of cell tower range anywhere in the world.

 

Save hundreds of dollars by avoiding the hype for the more expensive GPS models with simplified 1:100,000 maps (designed for auto tourists), an aneroid based altimeter (to be re-set frequently to the altitude constantly given by every GPS), or an electronic compass (accurate to about 5 degrees, that turns off as soon as you move due to the drain on batteries).

 

As far as I know, every GPS available here uses simple AA or AAA batteries. There is no need for lithium batteries. Of course, you must carry extras. They work in your flashlight too!

--trad_guy

 

Edited February 2, 2008 by trad_guy

[Hugh Conway]

Carry a new Spot Satellite Messenger if you will be out of cell tower range anywhere in the world.

 

THE SPOT DOES NOT SERVICE THE ENTIRE WORLD. IF YOU TRY TO USE THE SPOT IN QUITE A FEW PLACES YOU WILL NOT GET SERVICE.

 

http://www.findmespot.com/explorespot/coverage.aspx

 

NOTE: PATAGONIA, HIMALAYAS AND SUBSAHARAN AFRICA ARE NOT COVERED

[Frikadeller]

I have one. A Garmin that has a built in FRS radio. It does not work well in the forest because of the tree cover. I have only used it (for real) once in a whiteout on Mt. St. Helens. All other uses have been trivial (Marking tent platforms on Hood's south side,Marking trail heads, etc.)

 

I could probably do without in most situations.

[kevino]

I have a Garmin explorist 500 or something. I hardly use it. One, the battery life sucks! I haven't yet purchased the software, but have read terrible reviews about it and its upwards of $100. My dad originally bought it for me, so thats why I have it. I'd be curious to hear what you get and how you like it.

[RogerJ]

I have a Garmin Foretrex. It's small, light and I use it to get UTM coordinates to facilitate map and compass use. I also waypoint key landmarks to track back to.

 

-r

[robertjoy]

A year ago I heard about the GARMIN 60csx. I did a lot of research online, and it clearly represented the best available technology.

High Points:

1. SirfStar III chipset give incredible reception, under trees, in valleys, inside cars, etc. Locks at least 30% more satellites.

2. Time to satelite lock is very brief. Cold start to lock is about a minute. Warm start (unit has been off for less than one hour)takes about 5 sec. This makes the Garmin 60csx a functional tool, since a reading can be taken almost instantly, without slowing the pace of the climbing team.

3. Onboard maps are very effective in providing a visual interpretation of the GPS reading, showing proximity to map features, and reducing the need to pull out the paper map.

4.Uses standard AA batteries. I use the new ENELON rechargeable lithium batteries, which are light and function well in cold.

5. Has altimeter included.

6. Currently available on AMAZON.com for $300. Is that too much?

Well, this is the GPS that will work well when you need it. With the powerful receiver, and fast aquire times, this GPS won't be a pain to use like more primitive models, so you will find that you actually use it. And when the whiteout descends, it will save your butt, as intended.

[olyclimber]

ENELON rechargeable lithium batteries, which are light and function well in cold.

 

this is why i mention lithium batteries above

[rbw1966]

I have a 60csx and am pretty happy with it. It replaced the eTrex vista I had that had been warranty replaced 3 times before I got fed up with the POS and upgraded.

 

I chose the 60csx for a number of reasons that are listed above by robertjoy. In addition, I wanted something with a big enough screen that I could read it in the car or on my motorcycle, that was durable and waterproof and user-friendly. I've used it quiet a bit now and I like it a LOT better than the Vista. The downside is its heavier than the smaller units but its a price I am willing to pay.

 

I got mine for $276 on sale.

 

I don't know anything about the Delorme units.

[Couloir]

Garmin eTrex. Mine is about 5 years old and works fine for its intended use. It's very straight forward and has only a few special features, which I don't use. I have used it less than a dozen times, once when it really came in handy in a whiteout.

 

My only complaint is the satelites are hard to pick-up in the trees. Which is frustrating. Which is also why I always carry a compass, an old's cool altimeter, a plastic UTM grid reader, a good map and of course an airline bottle of Crown for courage, all in my map case.

[trad_guy]

The new Garmin eTrex H has a new High Sensitivity Receiver. This makes it top of the line compared to all GPS brands and models.

 

The Garmin TOPO downloadable maps that you must purchase to have topo maps in your GPS costs an extra $100 and includes the Ten Western States on the single disk. The 1,900 or so quad maps for Oregon take up eight CDs just for the one state! These Garmin TOPO GPS maps are made for vehicles (and motorcycles)and not for climbers.

 

The Garmin eTrex H combined with a paper Quad map and a base plate compass would have saved the latest two climbers who missed the Lodge and Lodge parking lot and ended up less than a mile from US 26.

 

Navigating in the backcountry takes some study. Here is a reference: http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/Seminar_Navigation.pdf

 

and http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/News_Spot_PLB-Plus.htm

 

Climb on!

--trad_guy

[Bug]

Keep it warm.

Take reading glasses.

[Crevasse]

I used to be old school and was annoyed when my climbing buddy started pulling out the GPS. I surveyed for the Forest Service in college and thought maps and a compass were the way to go until we got caught in whiteout on N Sister. I am normally a walking GPS but I found that even with the compass I would get off course and completely turned around within a couple of hundred feet and have to reset. The GPS was bomber and saved a lot of time on the walk out.

 

Now I take the GPS everywhere although I rarely use maps. I pre-mark important points like trail junctions, import previous tracks or waypoints form previous climbs, escape routes like the Pearly Gates and top of the Palmer, and sometimes pull in points from Google earth. And during endless slogs it is a good time waster to check speed and distance and otherwise occupy the mind.

 

In the field if I feel I might need to backtrack I turn tracks on and occasionally mark things like bivy sites. So to get to the point I love the GPS, carry a compass but never use it and would feel very comfortable relying on it when visibility drops.

 

Go for it Bill

[blurpy]

i have the garmin 60csx, and am pretty happy with it. compared to other models i've used it finds and holds signals quite well, even under heavy tree cover, but there are also situations where it loses touch.

 

like all gps models, it sucks down battery power (perhaps more than most), so don't plan on using anything other than lithium if you want it to last more than a few hours. leaving the compass off and staying away from the map screen when not using it helps.

 

as i'm sure most are aware, the usgs quads are missing many trails and tracks, so using the breadcrumb feature and uploading that to the map software later is quite nice.

 

it is also very useful for getting around in a whiteout, with a nice big screen that is visible through ice-encrusted goggles.

 

of course it is battery-powered and electronic, so ymmv out in the mountains....i still carry a compass and practice taking bearings.

[JohnGo]

There is a nice overview here (link in lower left corner of page):

 

http://www.mountaineers.org/seattle/navigation/

 

covering GPS features and considerations. I am not a Mountie member, just found thids page useful.

 

Personally, I have the new Garmin Etrex Vista HCx. It has the new chip that gets sat. locks incredibly fast. Robert, thanks for the battery tip!

 

- Johngo

[AlpineK]

I'd like to hear some opinions on the Canadian topo system.

[JohnGo]

As far as I know, every GPS available here uses simple AA or AAA batteries. There is no need for lithium batteries. Of course, you must carry extras. They work in your flashlight too!

--trad_guy

 

Trad Guy,

As an FYI for you, lithium batteries do come in AA and AAA flavors.

one example:

http://www.amazon.com/Energizer-L91BP-4-Lithium-Batteries-4-Pack/dp/B00003IEME

 

(Being such a supreme gearhead, I'm surprised you are not aware of this =^)

Edited January 17, 2008 by JohnGo

[trad_guy]

Hi JohnGo-

The main advantage of lithium batteries is a long shelf life. I noted that there is no need for lithium batteries.

 

They cost a lot more than say, Duracells.

 

Use them if you want, but what is the point if you use your GPS at all? Most users replace the GPS batteries after a full day of use, and use the old batteries for toys, flashlights, etc.

 

Again, the two most recent lost climbers on Mt. Hood needed a GPS to find the parking lot.

 

(It is not reported whether or not they had a map and compass.)

 

If they still could not find the Lodge and the huge parking lot, they could have given their Responsible Person (the girl friend) their UTM coordinants when they called the first night. SAR could have given them the UTM coordinants of the Lodge Bar.

 

Read this Report:

Two climbers become lost descending Mt. Hood's South Side! http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/News_Lost_HoodDescent.htm

 

Folks don't know that they don't know how to use their GPS, map and compass until they get into trouble and have to call for help (or wait until someone at the office notices they have not come in for a couple of days and tries to call them at home).

 

Read this Report:

http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/News_Lost_JamesKim.htm

 

Thanks for the compliment, JohnGo.

--trad-guy

 

PS: Keep the $99 super accurate eTrex H GPS in your pants pocket where it stays warm as noted by a knowledgeable previous contributor to this thread.

Edited January 17, 2008 by trad_guy

[billbob]

BC, I've used the Garmin 60xxx for a couple years and found it to be an asset. Don't know if other brands have the same issues as mine, to wit: 1) Ya gotta keep it relatively warm. Last winter in a whiteout the screen went black, reportedly from the 22F temps and the fact it was sitting in the outide pocket of my shell; and 2) While it does have a compass function, if you are using the map and are not moving, then just turning and pointing the unit will not provide accurate spatial orientation. The unit has to be traveling (horizontally), something not always possible, maybe a bit risky watching a screen while climbing. BB.

[Bigtree]

Billcoe, the 60CSx is very nice for all the reasons stated above (I have one by the way and am very pleased with its utility and performance); however, Garmin is about to release the new Colorado 300 and I would give serious consideration to buying one. Its got very impressive features here: http://www.gpscentral.ca/products/garmin/colorado-300.html

 

Edited January 19, 2008 by Bigtree

[billcoe]

Nice find Bigtree. It looks like the 400t would even be better for just woods wandering. Of course you'd still be using the 1/100,000 scale maps Garmin has.

 

Unless you uploaded it to the National Geographic topo maps.