Ketosis Breath

[G-spotter]

So you are out there on a long climb or hike, burning lots of energy, and your body switches into serious fat- and muscle-burning mode. Ketosis sets in and you get a wonderful taste of metabolizing flesh in your mouth.

 

What is a good thing that will mask the taste of ketosis while exerting, that lasts a long time? Gum?

 

Energy chews don't last long enough. Neither do hard candies or cough drops. Although Ricolas are pretty much the best thing I've tried so far.

[olyclimber]

Copenhagen

[G-spotter]

ewwwwwwwwwwww

[denalidave]

Bacardi 151?

[builder206]

Or, you could stay adequately nourished & hydrated so your body doesn't consume itself.

 

[G-spotter]

There's more usable energy in one pound of fat than in 10 lbs. of Gu.

[builder206]

OMG, Gu was the last frikkin thing I was thinking of

[hafilax]

Pound bacon fat into Hubba-Bubba.

 

I call it gummican.

[Sherri]

 

 

 

It would probably be best to not blow bubbles. Just saying.

[i_like_sun]

There's more usable energy in one pound of fat than in 10 lbs. of Gu.

 

 

Dude, always exercising in ketosis is going to limit your athletic progress. Its true that fats have WAY more energy than carbs, but lipids cannot enter glycolosis, thus you are creating carbohydrates FROM your muscles. Think about this seriously for a second, carbs are by far the preferred energy source for your cells. Your brain will do anything to get carbs, so it will either create sugar cravings, or catabolize your muscle tissue into ketone bodies and GLUCOSE. Thats right, muscle will turn into glucose if you don't eat enough carbohydrate. Sure you're burning some fat, but you are killing muscle and thus killing your calorie burning capacity.

 

Also, by restricting your carbs, you are you training your body to store more fat (are Eskimos all lean?). Your thyroid down regulates, and cellular enzymes adapt to aide in fat storage. ALSO, you are limiting anabolic hormone release, such as insulin, IGF-1, and growth hormone - thus you are not building as much muscle as you could be.

 

Stop being a dumb ass.

 

[mattp]

On big climbs I have not been able to keep up with either food or water intake to match my need. Do you guys, builder and sun, have suggestions on how to do that when you are moving for 15 or 20 hours, barely stopping for a rest anywhere, and carrying a pack with mountaineering gear and clothing yet light enough that you can lead challenging technical ground?

[i_like_sun]

On big climbs I have not been able to keep up with either food or water intake to match my need. Do you guys, builder and sun, have suggestions on how to do that when you are moving for 15 or 20 hours, barely stopping for a rest anywhere, and carrying a pack with mountaineering gear and clothing yet light enough that you can lead challenging technical ground?

 

 

Fat is still a fantastic energy source for those days. Peanut butter is rad. One thing I've been doing is packing in tortillas: They are flat and light, and are loaded with calories. Just tear off a chunk, squish into peanut butter, and voila. Eating more on those big days will save you from the ravages of crashing.

[crackers]

Neither do hard candies or cough drops. Although Ricolas are pretty much the best thing I've tried so far.

 

Try to find an old copper penny. Maybe a new canadian penny would work too. Clean it up nice, and then suck on it during ketosis time.

 

works for me...but cope is better.

[Rad]

After a few bonks on really long days I learned I need to eat throughout the day. Like a clif bar or more every hour. I've had no more bonks. Choose something with a mix of fat, protein and sugar for long, medium, and near-term energy. Hydration, including electrolyte replacement, is key too.

[crackers]

is it just me, or is everybody opining about woulda, coulda, shoulda rather than responding to the question?

 

oh, right, we're on the internetz!

[Hugh Conway]

oh, right, we're on the internetz!

 

Dru asked the question and is getting a taste of his own medicine

 

Marlboros or Gitanes

[crackers]

three castles

[tvashtarkatena]

On big climbs I have not been able to keep up with either food or water intake to match my need. Do you guys, builder and sun, have suggestions on how to do that when you are moving for 15 or 20 hours, barely stopping for a rest anywhere, and carrying a pack with mountaineering gear and clothing yet light enough that you can lead challenging technical ground?

 

Here's some tips from adventure racing. On a week long race, ketosis is not an option. It shouldn't be on long climbs, either. Your body is EXTREMELY inefficient in that mode, and you risk injury due to clumsiness, eroded judgement, etc:

 

Take in 150 to 300 calories per hour during heavy exertion. The key to this is to have food available to eat as you move. This is pretty easy; waist pouches, pockets, etc. Some racers duct tape food all over their mountain bikes. Going without food for long periods of time is just poor planning.

 

"regular" foods are best (this is advice from the top adventure racers in the world): ie. sandwiches and the like. Everybody's got their own preferences...here's what works for me:

 

sandwiches, Landjaegers/salami/etc, bread (squished up into bread balls in my case), various bars, the less sugary the better, nuts, raisins, burritos (excellent), Essential sandwiches....

 

Eat enough protein. This is one of the number one mistake made in endurance sports. Salami/landjaeger/pre-cooked bacon in a baggy, whatever

 

Gu doesn't work for me; it's basically sugar, so it jacks me up and lets me down, but it works for some people. It might be good to carry for that end of day emergency shot.

 

Take electrolyte pills on longer or hotter trips; 1 per hour. If you experience any cramping, take 2 per hour.

 

Drink every 15 minutes in warmer weather. Again, a camelbak or water bottles toe-clip strapped to your pack's chest straps (my preferred method) or waist belt keeps you hydrated.

 

Not taking enough food to 'save weight' will result in arriving back at the car later than if you kept yourself fit every time. It's a losing equation.

[Hugh Conway]

three castles

 

veni, vidi, vici baby

[tvashtarkatena]

is it just me, or is everybody opining about woulda, coulda, shoulda rather than responding to the question?

 

oh, right, we're on the internetz!

 

Might I suggest rolling a small turd around in your mouth, Dru. Not necessarily only during ketosis, mind you.

[dmuja]

 

G, Mint works well. Mint leaves etc..

[builder206]

Yes, Dru did ask what time it is, not how to make a watch.

 

That said, I stand by my statement that it's better to stay nourished in the first place and never go into ketosis. I am surprised mattp asked the question he did. Tvash's answer is an excellent response. I thought the approach he describes was common knowledge. It is what I do (especially the part about keeping up protein intake) and almost everyone I climb with does too.

 

I know from returning to the athletic gym (particularly Olympic weightlifting) right after a climb that I do not lose muscle mass. I am sure the reason is that I do not become malnourished or dehydrated during a climb. Tvash is exactly right, adequate nourishment and hydration cannot be sensibly or justifiably sacrificed to any higher priority. You will definitely pay more in the long run if you do. He is also right that it is easy to accomplish on the move.

 

Starting a climb in excellent athletic condition goes a long way to help. If the cells are already well-conditioned to efficiently make energy and process water, just that much less will be needed on the move in comparison to people who only cllimb without additional or supplementary physical training.

[To_The_Top]

Havla I hear works,

TTT

[i_like_sun]

KK man knows what he's talking about.

[tvashtarkatena]

One more thing that hasn't been mentioned. Hypoglycemic people tend to get a little 'scratchy', or bitchy, as we say in the AR biz. Why put your partner through that?