Hillarycare part deux

[Jim]

So if you can afford the $20k for a operation ok, if not then buck up?

 

The issue is not just with folks that have no insurance, but even with folks who do and the insurance companies are denying their requests for operations just to insure a higher profit.

 

A friend and ex-logger I know outside of Forks had insurance. He hurt himself in a limbing operation. Broken back. Has had to fight tooth and nail to get what is owed him. Eventually had to declare bankrupcy, thank god it was before the recent revisions in bankrupcy law. In general he is not getting proper health care. He doesn't expect to be pampered, just given some basic help. Our health care system is just lame.

[Alpinfox]

 

 

 

If I was in that position I'd find a way to pay for the surgery.

 

Gonna have a bake sale?

 

Actually, I'd never let myself get into that position in the first place.

 

Yeah.

 

 

[ClimbingPanther]

This country is fucked up that we let stuff like this happen.

 

I don't know if I'd go that far, stuff like that happened all the time years and years ago and there was no solution. We're (slowly) progressing as a nation and quality of life is better than it was 10, 50, 100 years ago. Just because medicine has the knowledge & power to fix a problem doesn't mean it's possible to fix everyone's problems. At some point, there will be people with treatable problems that just won't be treated because the cost/benefit is too high. It's all about drawing a line and somebody's going to get "screwed." Life isn't fair.

[Jim]

 

I recently heard a story about a friend of a friend:

 

She is currently a student and doesn't have medical insurance. She is very active, healthy, etc. She recently wrecked her knee. She needs surgery, but has no insurance and therefore can't afford the surgery. She will forego the surgery, her knee will not heal properly, and she will most likely have lifelong disability as a result. This is a REAL person. It could very easily happen to me (I don't have insurance at the moment) tomorrow.

 

This country is fucked up that we let stuff like this happen.

 

sounds like she is making that choice - not to get the money for this surgery.

 

Yeah, she is "choosing" to suffer a life of disability rather than trot on down to the magic money tree and pick a few $10k bills off the low-hanging branches.

 

 

If I was in that position I'd find a way to pay for the surgery.

 

Actually, I'd never let myself get into that position in the first place.

 

With our system, even if you have insurance, the only thing you have going over someone else is luck. Wait until you or a relative come down with some odd cancer and you have to fight the insurance company for what you thought you paid for.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

So if you can afford the $20k for a operation ok, if not then buck up?

 

20K. That's about the price of a car, isn't it? I'd find a way. I wouldn't like it, but I'd not accept a "lifelong, debilitating" injury.

 

The issue is not just with folks that have no insurance, but even with folks who do and the insurance companies are denying their requests for operations just to insure a higher profit.

 

The gov't will be worrying about costs too. Anyways, I've already said I'm with you - if you could prove a better system in parallel with what we've got.

 

 

[rob]

 

I recently heard a story about a friend of a friend:

 

She is currently a student and doesn't have medical insurance. She is very active, healthy, etc. She recently wrecked her knee. She needs surgery, but has no insurance and therefore can't afford the surgery. She will forego the surgery, her knee will not heal properly, and she will most likely have lifelong disability as a result. This is a REAL person. It could very easily happen to me (I don't have insurance at the moment) tomorrow.

 

This country is fucked up that we let stuff like this happen.

 

sounds like she is making that choice - not to get the money for this surgery.

 

Yeah, she is "choosing" to suffer a life of disability rather than trot on down to the magic money tree and pick a few $10k bills off the low-hanging branches.

 

 

If I was in that position I'd find a way to pay for the surgery.

 

Actually, I'd never let myself get into that position in the first place.

 

Wow, I never realized you were such a cockhead. I thought maybe people just had you figured wrong, but you really are a shitheel. Huh.

 

[Alpinfox]

This country is fucked up that we let stuff like this happen.

 

I don't know if I'd go that far, stuff like that happened all the time years and years ago and there was no solution. We're (slowly) progressing as a nation and quality of life is better than it was 10, 50, 100 years ago. It's all about drawing a line and somebody's going to get "screwed." Life isn't fair.

 

I don't think "things are better than they used to be" is a good argument against wanting progress and change.

 

I'm just not satisfied with the status quo of the american health care system, especially when I see poorer nations that are somehow able to deliver better quality care to 100% of their citizens. We can do better. We SHOULD do better. The fact that we don't is shameful.

 

Just because medicine has the knowledge & power to fix a problem doesn't mean it's possible to fix everyone's problems. At some point, there will be people with treatable problems that just won't be treated because the cost/benefit is too high.

Quite true. We as a society need to make some painful choices about how much we are willing to spend on the healthcare of our citizens. Should we spend $70k on a heart transplant for a 70yo man to extend his life expectancy another 5 years? Maybe/maybe not. Should we spend $15k on an ACL surgery for an active/intelligent ~20yo with a full and promising life ahead of her? I think so.

 

 

 

 

[JayB]

 

I recently heard a story about a friend of a friend:

 

She is currently a student and doesn't have medical insurance. She is very active, healthy, etc. She recently wrecked her knee. She needs surgery, but has no insurance and therefore can't afford the surgery. She will forego the surgery, her knee will not heal properly, and she will most likely have lifelong disability as a result. This is a REAL person. It could very easily happen to me (I don't have insurance at the moment) tomorrow.

 

This country is fucked up that we let stuff like this happen.

 

sounds like she is making that choice - not to get the money for this surgery.

 

Yeah, she is "choosing" to suffer a life of disability rather than trot on down to the magic money tree and pick a few $10k bills off the low-hanging branches.

 

Tell me more about the fairytale land you live in!

 

 

During my last stint in Washington I got catastrophic coverage with a $2500 deductible for ~40 a month when I wasn't covered by an employer sponsored plan. Worth looking into if you don't want to roll the dice.

 

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Should we spend $70k on a heart transplant for a 70yo man to extend his life expectancy another 5 years? Maybe/maybe not.

 

And THAT is a compelling argument? The government will decide this? FUCK YOU.

[fenderfour]

Should we spend $70k on a heart transplant for a 70yo man to extend his life expectancy another 5 years? Maybe/maybe not.

 

And THAT is a compelling argument? The government will decide this? FUCK YOU.

 

The government's decision would be no different than a private insurance company. Don't kid yourself.

[ClimbingPanther]

robmcdan = kk in expletive:total word ratio, except more lefty and less points to make about the topic at hand

[fenderfour]

...and the government wouldn't pay $70k. The insurance companies don't pay $70k.

[Alpinfox]

4gjA3CV95i4

[KaskadskyjKozak]

...and the government wouldn't pay $70k. The insurance companies don't pay $70k.

 

that's funny. I know people who have had expensive operations AND been covered by both private insurance plans and gov't plans.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

 

 

If I was in that position I'd find a way to pay for the surgery.

 

Gonna have a bake sale?

 

Actually, I'd never let myself get into that position in the first place.

 

Yeah.

 

 

Look. Just how expensive is catastrophic health insurance for a young, healthy person. It's just not that high. I think there's a lot of excuses that go around here. If you are young and uninsured and do nothing about it, then don't whine if you get sick or hurt and have to pay for it.

 

I was not responding to other situations - where people truly are in a bind. And I realize there are many of those.

 

[olyclimber]

 

[Alpinfox]

So if some 20yo makes the decision to forego the $40/mo for $2500 deductible insurance in favor of spending that money paying down their student loan, paying their bills, or, heaven forbid, beer, we should just let them rot when something happens to them?

 

It's true. Young folks tend not to make the most sound decisions when it comes to short-term vs long-term cost/benefit. Your apparent response: "Oh well. Fuck'em."

[ClimbingPanther]

Dem's want everyone to be forced to live by their moral beliefs that we should take care of the less fortunate by forcing everyone to pay for universal health care. And this is different from Rep's trying to force everyone to live by their moral beliefs that marriage is between a man and a woman. That's right, folks, Dem's are the ones who tolerate diversity and fight for freedom and make sure everyone has the right to choose their own path in life.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

So if some 20yo makes the decision to forego the $40/mo for $2500 deductible insurance in favor of spending that money paying down their student loan or paying their bills or whatever, we should just let them rot when something happens to them?

 

more like $40 for beer, cigarettes, CDs, concert tickets, expensive climbing gear, or gas to get to the crags.

[Chopi]

Does KaskadskyjKozak get paid for posting on cascadeclimbers.com? Dude, you must have made a million $$ today alone.

[tvashtarkatena]

 

Wow, I never realized you were such a cockhead. I thought maybe people just had you figured wrong, but you really are a shitheel. Huh.

 

 

 

KKK's apparently not up on the current prices for, let's say, bypass and other cardiac operations these days; the most common big ticket medical expense today. It's pure entertainment to read his 'I'd never put myself in that situation' manifesto when he clearly doesn't have a clue as to what 'that situation' is.

 

Never say never.

 

It's interesting that Rob was nice enough to give KKK the benefit of the doubt. Most don't bother.

Edited September 17, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Does KaskadskyjKozak get paid for posting on cascadeclimbers.com? Dude, you must have made a million $$ today alone.

 

Yes Porter pays me for every post, so he can subsequently mock me.

[olyclimber]

 

[fenderfour]

N

[Alpinfox]

So if some 20yo makes the decision to forego the $40/mo for $2500 deductible insurance in favor of spending that money paying down their student loan or paying their bills or whatever, we should just let them rot when something happens to them?

 

more like $40 for beer, cigarettes, CDs, concert tickets, expensive climbing gear, or gas to get to the crags.

 

HA! That's funny I edited my post above to include references to beer,etc before I even read this.

 

Hey KK, keep up the good work of looking out for #1 and not caring to try to make the world a kinder, gentler, and fairer world for everyone else. We're all very proud of you.