freakin' cheaters

[NTM]

So a while back I was watching dosage IV with some friends and during the part in switzerland, dave graham puts on this knee-bar pad (looked like it had stealth rubber on it) to help hold a sketchy knee bar. right off the bat my friend says that's "fucking cheating" and that if it doesn't hold on his own, he should find another way to do the move. One friend was nice enough to point out that climbing shoes aren't that different and if those rules were to be followed, we should all still be in mountain boots.

Later though, Tommy Caldwell is getting ready to do the Changing Corners pitch on the Nose, but instead of moving straight into it, he climbs up a crack on he left a ways, clips a bolt, then downclimbs and does the crux move on TR. Now, that same friend yells "climbing up easier ground to clip that bolt is cheating".

So i'm just wondering where folks stand. not necessarily on thses 2 points, but in climbing in general. what constitutes cheating (aside from the obvious things like pulling on gear and claiming a free send)?

and yes dru, we all know that cheating is aid and the one cheating is probly the one having the most fun.

[catbirdseat]

and yes dru, we all know that cheating is aid and the one cheating is probly the one having the most fun.

All attempts at preempting Dru are doomed to failure.

[fenderfour]

Preempting Dru is cheating.

[G-spotter]

Cheating is pulling on a yellow tape hold while doing the blue tape problem. If there is no tape it is not cheating.

[fenderfour]

More seriously, this is a question of personal ethics. A consensus will never be reached.

 

If wearing a sticky kneepad to stick a kneebar is cheating (aid), then wearing carharts in a chimney is aid too.

 

Tape is aid

 

Shoes are aid

 

If clipping the bolt is cheating, then using a rope is cheating too. Cams are cheating. etc...

[lI1|1!]

that 'no climbing with your knees' rule always kinda pissed me off.

[bstach]

Is it cheating to keeping pushing a cam up a parallel crack for 30' so it is just above you so you are always on "top rope"?

[G-spotter]

Why stop at 30', what about 200'?

[ivan]

all the cool people are cheating

[catbirdseat]

Is it cheating to keeping pushing a cam up a parallel crack for 30' so it is just above you so you are always on "top rope"?

It isn't if it is the only cam you have to protect the entire crack.

[skykilo]

You're not on top rope while you move the fawking cam; that's for sure.

[G-spotter]

What is the difference between aid and cheating you might ask?

 

Tape is aid.

Colin is cheating.

[Off_White]

I'm pretty sure that cheating is what the other guy does, not me.

[rob]

I'm still looking to find a suit made entirely out of stealth rubber, for those tricky friction problems and OW elbow jams.

 

Suit up, throw myself against the rock like a wet sock, and slurp my way up like an inch worm.

 

WTF, now I'm a cheater?

[fenderfour]

I'm still looking to find a suit made entirely out of stealth rubber, for those tricky friction problems and OW elbow jams.

 

Suit up, throw myself against the rock like a wet sock, and slurp my way up like an inch worm.

 

WTF, now I'm a cheater?

 

Slab climbing would get really easy. You would look like a seal on shore.

[G-spotter]

The verdict is that a full suit of stealth rubber = sweaty ballz to the tenth power

[MCash]

that 'no climbing with your knees' rule always kinda pissed me off.

 

Knees make manteling much easier. Knees are in.

[Weekend_Climberz]

The verdict is that a full suit of stealth rubber = sweaty ballz to the tenth power

 

You say that like you don't like schweaty ballz??

 

[rob]

The verdict is that a full suit of stealth rubber = sweaty ballz to the tenth power

 

This problem is corrected with a subtle adjustment of the location of your chalk bag.

[SmallShoes]

The verdict is that a full suit of stealth rubber = sweaty ballz to the tenth power

 

This problem is corrected with a subtle adjustment of the location of your chalk bag.

 

And using

 

[Sherri]

So a while back I was watching dosage IV with some friends and during the part in switzerland, dave graham puts on this knee-bar pad (looked like it had stealth rubber on it) to help hold a sketchy knee bar. right off the bat my friend says that's "fucking cheating" and that if it doesn't hold on his own, he should find another way to do the move. One friend was nice enough to point out that climbing shoes aren't that different and if those rules were to be followed, we should all still be in mountain boots.

Later though, Tommy Caldwell is getting ready to do the Changing Corners pitch on the Nose, but instead of moving straight into it, he climbs up a crack on he left a ways, clips a bolt, then downclimbs and does the crux move on TR. Now, that same friend yells "climbing up easier ground to clip that bolt is cheating".

So i'm just wondering where folks stand. not necessarily on thses 2 points, but in climbing in general. what constitutes cheating (aside from the obvious things like pulling on gear and claiming a free send)?

and yes dru, we all know that cheating is aid and the one cheating is probly the one having the most fun.

 

Deception is an element of cheating(by definition, at least).

 

So, wouldn't using such techniques become "cheating" only if they claimed to have done it without them? Seems like if they own up to whatever method they needed to resort to in order to send the climb, they're not cheating anyone out of anything--they're acknowledging what worked for them at their particular skill level.

 

I reckon it becomes cheating when it is represented as something it is not and therein takes something away from the person who sent it cleanly.

 

Those particular folks were doing their thing in plain view of the climbing world, on video; that doesn't seem deceptive to me.

[rob]

Anyway, why do they call it stealth rubber? Is that so the mountain won't hear you sneaking up on it?

[RogerJ]

I heard the next edition of "Freedom of the Hills" will have a chapter on cheating. That should really clarify things.

 

-r

[Sherri]

Anyway, why do they call it stealth rubber? Is that so the mountain won't hear you sneaking up on it?

[ashw_justin]

When you think about it, pro climbers' accomplishments are like baseball cards. They aren't actually worth anything (except maybe to the climber), but they sell for millions as long as the consumers are willing to believe otherwise.

 

Honestly, why should we care about whether others are cheating? At best they're just having a good time; at worst, they're just cheating themselves to entertain you (breadwinning). That is, as long as the cheating being done leaves no physical trace.