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manimal

Stealing fixed draws

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Yeah, and this particular route, there's not a good way to rappel into it. The chains are well below the top of the cliffs and would require a nasty traverse into.

 

Bad form :tdown: :tdown:

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If I walked up to a route i wanted to work and the draws were already in place, I'd be stoked that i didn't have to put them up myself or leave my own draws for the route. You get more pitvhes in this way as well if you climbed on other people's pre-placed draws.....

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Speaking of sport climbing ethics - is it ok to climb a route and clip the fixed draws if the owner isn't around to ask?

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Two legitimate reasons for a climber to remove draws come to mind immediately:

 

1) he/she wants to place their own draws

2) he/she does not trust their life to someone else's draws

 

Given either of those possibilities, is this climber compelled to put the old draws back when they are done? Personally I think not. Although I could see leaving them on a bolt instead of tossing them or whatever. (But I have no connection whatsoever to this 'incident,' I am just theorizing.)

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fenderfour,I think it is o.k. to climb on them. The person placing the draws intends for the route to be worked and cannot expect to lock up a climb with their draws, so should expect others to use them.

 

As for someone wanting to place their own draws, it would be a lot of work and i doubt that anyone would actually do this. But playing a long, I would think that as long as there was a way to keep the draws out of reach from a hiker, like hanging them all off the last bolt or anchor (if the anchor cannot be reached from the top) then you may not need to. However, if you are cleaning your draws anyway, it would not be that much more work to simply replace the original draws. If you left your draws up instead, then expect others to climb on them.

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Yeah, I know many climbs are now bolted expecting draws to be fixed. I just wanted to point out the non-malicious possibilities.

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RUMR say:

I understand that you choose pins over bolts...well, if that's so, then its the same damn thing except worse...

 

You clearly don't understand my philosophy on these things so until you do, I suggest you refrain from pretending.

 

Mr. Phil say:

Oh, wait. Half ass. Dwayner.

 

Who's the fool?

 

Save your insults for spray.

 

Mr. Ryland Moore say:

Some of the Trd-itionalists are obviously out of touch with basic common sense/ethics with regards to sport climbing (may be an oxymoron). It is widely accepted and acceptable to leave draws on steep, weather protected climbs that an individual is workling. Most climbers when doing routes above.12s will leave draws up for a long time. Go to almost any sport-climbing area in the country and you will find this to be true.

 

I think most people are familiar with the practice but that doesn't mean everyone things it's a good thing to do.

 

There are already bolts there, what more damage is one doing to the rock when leaving draws up there?

 

It's bad enough that there's permanent damage, and, it makes the excuse for leaving your draws/refuse in place even weaker.

 

By the way, some of you consider these "projects". Again, if your "projects" are on public land, I don't think it's reasonable to leave your gear for the rest of us to experience. Secondly, one of my "projects" is keeping the environment fairly nice, which means NOT leaving a mess. Take your stuff down if you're not there and climbing it. Save that crap for the gym. Besides, leaving your "draws" up for weeks is like a micro-siege...a tiny little version of an old-style expedition except you're leaving the mountain with all your junk left there and then coming back over and over again.

 

 

 

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I saw a fight break out over this very issue at Foster Falls in TN. Lets just say the 19 year old punk who stole the draws off a .13d got the crap beat out of him and is rope taken......I guess what goes around, comes around.

 

How can something be stolen if they were left behind by the owner? Even on purpose! If you leave your shit at the crag….its fair game for anyone. I know it’s totally lame and I personally would not take anything, but if you left it, someone will take it. Its human nature. IMO leaving draws on a route is just being lazy. Why not clean them? Answer. It’s easier not to.

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Save your insults for spray.

 

Shouldnt this be in spray? I mean really....this thread (however fun and informative) is just climbers spraying and spewing there personal opinions about fixed draws anyway. IMO.

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Someone stole my draws off king of the ruins in vantage sometime in the past week. They were obviously project draws, not gear left behind when someone bailed. If the person responsible would put them back up, or at least set them at the base, that would be appreciated. Either that or any information on who took 'em. I'm just pissed that someone would jack my stuff, totally a bogus move. They were up for less than ten days, tops.
This isn't Chris or Mike is it? Regardless, sorry about your draws, I hope someone does the right thing.

Kevino, I think I have one of your draws. I won't mail it to you, but I have it.

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Someone stole my draws off king of the ruins in vantage sometime in the past week. They were obviously project draws, not gear left behind when someone bailed. If the person responsible would put them back up, or at least set them at the base, that would be appreciated. Either that or any information on who took 'em. I'm just pissed that someone would jack my stuff, totally a bogus move. They were up for less than ten days, tops.
This isn't Chris or Mike is it? Regardless, sorry about your draws, I hope someone does the right thing.

Kevino, I think I have one of your draws. I won't mail it to you, but I have it.

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two rules:

 

1) Don't touch other people shit. Don't. It's not yours leave it alone.

 

2) Don't leave your shit laying around. Ropes, draws, garbage. It pisses some people off. You want to leave shit hanging in the gym, go ahead.

 

3) Don't fu*ck with the rope I left hanging out 2 weeks ago. It's a near new 16 fall 11mil Black Diamond. I left it out of laziness. I was sick. Sorry Dwayner.

 

See rule 2. The extra rule: #3, was tossed in no charge to try and make some of you feel this was a full-value post and to help you not to get yer panties in a bunch.

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the attitude of most climbers is shit about this issue and all others. you guys sit here and bash each other all day long. really breeds a nice sense of community, being part of something....not. Keep your fuckin lame ass opinions about shit to yourself and climb. I am trying to turn over a new leaf myself. The whole point of this thread was not spray but to retrive stolen gear. Whos got it and give it up.

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Mr. Phil say:

Oh, wait. Half ass. Dwayner.

 

Who's the fool?

 

Save your insults for spray.

 

Hypocrite. Where did you go to school? Reading comprehension and critical thinking must not have been on the curriculum.

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a:lmao:

 

...and to think he's a prof! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 

he always insults in an underhanded way and then gets a knot in his thong when someone returns the insult outright so he can understand...

 

then, he wuns off to his mommy crying whaaaaaah wha

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you guys sit here and bash each other all day long. really breeds a nice sense of community, being part of something....not.

 

Thats a very nice start.

 

Keep your fuckin lame ass opinions about shit to yourself and climb.

 

Opps, little backsliding on the sense of community thing there.

 

 

I am trying to turn over a new leaf myself.

 

 

Admirable dude, but ya still have some work to do on it there. Might start by re-reading your post.

 

BTW, interesting thing, you can go back and change your posts. So "Keep your fuckin lame ass opinions about shit to yourself and climb." can turn into, can't we all just get along my good friends".

 

See?

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Shouldnt this be in spray? I mean really....this thread (however fun and informative) is just climbers spraying and spewing there personal opinions about fixed draws anyway. IMO.

 

It's a legitimate topic when the subject itself is actually addressed. If there are no opinions, than we have nothing to discuss other than we all agree on this or that. As can be seen thus far, there are some radically different responses to this whole topic so the "discussion" is useful in at least presenting viewpoints.

 

This started out as an interesting exchange, but it seems, as things often do around here, to be heading toward the spray cellar.

 

Let the moderators decide when to pull the plug and send it packing to the free-for-all.

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of course you didn't have anything to do with degrading the conversation, didya? :rolleyes:

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The whole point of this thread was not spray but to retrive stolen gear.

 

Its not stolen if you leave it behind.

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If you leave your car behind in the parking lot and it's gone when you get back, do you report it as stolen?

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Again, the draws were up for a very short time, and I wasn't going to leave them after I was done, so any argument that I was littering is bull. Also, from a distance the chalk is much more apparent, the draws were hard to see until you were basically under the route. I was very close to sending, so they probably would have been gone by the weekend, further reason to leave my stuff alone.

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If you leave your car behind in the parking lot and it's gone when you get back, do you report it as stolen?

 

:tup:

 

It is stolen. The climbers took something that did not belong to them. Just because someone left it behind, it is not implied that it is abandoned.

 

They are thieves and should be treated no differently then the Exit 38 bandits or someone stealing your gear from your car.

 

Kevbone is still a dumbass......

Edited by ryland_moore

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Breaking into a locked car and getting climbing booty off a wall are not even on the same planet.

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