JosephH Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 No, people do not perform better stoned. In all test performed, people were impaired in their performance. There is no data of any kind on this that relates to climbing in any valid sense. This sort of blanket claim is ridiculous. Thirty years of experience with climbers operating at a fairly high level of [trad] performance clearly illustrates a differing reality. And just a note - pilots perform instrument landings far better on 1.5oz of alcohol - and those are from documented FAA-sanctioned studies that go back to the sixties. Quote
rob Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 I'd take a stoned belay from someone paying attention as opposed to most of the belays I see in the gym and at sport crags where socializing among straight people is nearly always taking precedence over belaying. Also, I'd take a stoned belay from a all-trad climber anyday before a straight belay from a person who is primarily a sport climber and used to drifting off while someone is dogging extensively on them... OMFG, the guy at REI almost dropped me a while ago. I was stuck at the mall with the kids for a few hours while the wife watched a movie, so we sauntered over to the "pinnacle" cause the sign said climbing was free. So, I got the kids suited up, they climbed a bit, and then they wanted to see me climb, so I scramble on up and rang the dorky little bell and the guy says, "whenever you're ready" -- so I say, "leaning back" and he says "go for it" -- and then proceeds to drop me 5-10 feet. He later claimed the grigri "slipped". WTF? Sometimes stoned is better than stupid. Quote
AlpineK Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 Pot's fine by me, but I don't like climbing stoned or drunk either. I have done a couple really easy things as part of a group while a little fucked up, but we stuck to real easy stuff. In general I'd say wait till it's apresclimbing to light up or drink. Quote
ivan Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 slightly different take on climbing, but for expedition climbing, pot is most definetly a performance enchancing drug - if i have to endure huge slogs, endless weather days, and nasty setbacks without, i'm cranky and bitchy and the team dynamic makes it easy for the whole thing to fall apart - but with, hey, shit, it's all good - we're happy - we can stay in the tent for a month and eat oatmeal if we have to, and who cares if its 8 hours trudging through slop? Quote
Clavote Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 What is your favored method of alpine ganja administration? Personally, I like jays on the mountain. They are light and are a self contained TCH delivery device. Fairly windproof when lit. Does not dump your hemp when tilted. Your choice of papers is also quite wide and if you have some flavor enhancers...oh...maybe something blondish or black you can crumble it in like blue cheese! Sometimes a pipe is nice, but that's all extra weight. Weight that can be better used carrying munchies. Also, what kind of ganja is important. Organicly grown. Mmmmm tasty. www.kine2b.com A nice selection above. Seriously, this new legislation may require me to climb to the lawless zone above 7000 with a MLU. Marijuana Locater Unit so I can find my way back to the tent. Doood, I was lost without my stash. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 (edited) slightly different take on climbing, but for expedition climbing, pot is most definetly a performance enchancing drug - if i have to endure huge slogs, endless weather days, and nasty setbacks without, i'm cranky and bitchy and the team dynamic makes it easy for the whole thing to fall apart - but with, hey, shit, it's all good - we're happy - we can stay in the tent for a month and eat oatmeal if we have to, and who cares if its 8 hours trudging through slop? A little happy cabbage keeps scurvy of the attitude at bay. Edited February 23, 2007 by tvashtarkatena Quote
EWolfe Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 Pot helps me focus, as Carolyn said. I pay more attention to what is in front of me, my balance, breathing, and worry less about how far I am above my last piece, the placement of which has not been compromised by my self-medication. ADD fix? Quite likely. I wouldn't take a belay from most of you control-freaks anyway. Quote
kevbone Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 he knows not what he insinuates Do not presume to know what I insinuate. Quote
Clavote Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 No, people do not perform better stoned. In all test performed, people were impaired in their performance. There is no data of any kind on this that relates to climbing in any valid sense. This sort of blanket claim is ridiculous. Thirty years of experience with climbers operating at a fairly high level of [trad] performance clearly illustrates a differing reality. And just a note - pilots perform instrument landings far better on 1.5oz of alcohol - and those are from documented FAA-sanctioned studies that go back to the sixties. Of course it was a blanket statement and there is no data that relate to climbing, but if someone is stoned, they may well be impaired while climbing. Maybe we can sponsor a scientific study and we can meet to discuss the results over a bong. Or just fuck that and fire up that splif. I'm not so sure about older FAA data. Hell, we could go back and see that tobacco had all kinds of claimed benefits. Ahhhhh...lung cancer...so relaxing, so alive with pleasure. I used to ace finals in college drunk. Sober, I could have done better. I definietly do not work stoned. It makes my boring day even longer and it does impair my abilities. In general, I believe that being stoned does impair most people. Quote
Dechristo Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 wasn't that knottygirl, not Carolyn? Quote
archenemy Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 I respect that some people's reactions to pot may be different that others'. Some people may indeed become more focused. Nonetheless, I would politely decline a belay from them. I'd party with them after the day is done though. No harm, no foul. Quote
Dechristo Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 he knows not what he insinuates Do not presume to know what I insinuate. I presume your illiteracy knows no bounds Quote
JosephH Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 Just a note - drunk and stoned are not remotely similar, performance on alcohol is a well-documented curve where it is often enhanced up in that 1.5oz range and then deteriorates fast and furious at 2oz and beyond. No such standard performance curve or chart of direct physical/mental manifestations exists for THC on anything remotely like a 1:1 relationship with alcohol. Stoned is one thing, drunk or imbibing alcohol to excess and getting near a rope I have a serious problem with. Quote
ivan Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 anecdote of remote significance: couple of years ago i climbed forbidden w/ a friend who wasn't a smoke at that time - we car2car it and get back after dark, pretty sleep - i fire up in celebration (well, the 30th celebratin of the day perhaps) and my boy hops in the driver seat and off we go - he's strait, but so mesmerized by the moth flying around in the cab due to the light he has on while searching for his phone that i have to save us by pointing out we're heading over the side of the road and down into a world of hurt seconds before it all comes true - an hour later, making the thunder run back to i5, strait guy's going 900 mph while frantically text-messaging - i'm smoking a bowl and looking out the window when i see 2 deer in the road about a hundred yards up - "hey, dude - look out" "hey dude!" "WHOA! dude - didn't you see the deer?" i was like the stoner ninja that night - the strait guy was clueless. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 My opinion, which of course is synonymous with absolute fact, is that pot can enhance slow, deliberate performance (such sending a route), but also impair rapid reaction time (responding to a rockfall). The latter is required much less often, but the consequences of screwing up in such an instance can be significant. Quote
kevbone Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 he knows not what he insinuates Do not presume to know what I insinuate. I presume your illiteracy knows no bounds Thanks. Quote
EWolfe Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 Wait....Dude? What were we just talking about? Quote
bstach Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 Back to the subject at hand, I certainly wouldn't hunt within anyone who is stoned, particularly if they were a chimpanzee with tool making skills. Or if they are Rumsfeld...straight or high. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 Has Rummy shot someone in the face, too? Quote
Clavote Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 Just a note - drunk and stoned are not remotely similar, performance on alcohol is a well-documented curve where it is often enhanced up in that 1.5oz range and then deteriorates fast and furious at 2oz and beyond. No such standard performance curve or chart of direct physical/mental manifestations exists for THC on anything remotely like a 1:1 relationship with alcohol. Stoned is one thing, drunk or imbibing to excess and getting near a rope I have a serious problems with. So do we launch a scientific test? Maybe we could do a reaction test. We belay someone drunk or stoned and see how long it takes them to hit the ground. The we check for damage. Seriously, you can do a test by having someone belay and stop the same fall. Then you check how far your leader dropped to measure the reaction time (in feet of rope). The THC can be stadardized by using the same weed and administering the same dose maybe in a vaporizer to manage the dose somewhat consistently. I don't know about alcohol, but I had a chat with my cousin who is a 767 captain for a large airline and his company's attitude is that no pilot flies with alcohol in their system. It seems to be pretty ingrained in the professional airline pilot culture at his company that alcohol is not a good thing to be on anytime you are at your place of work. The FAA also regulates the consumption of alcohol prior to flying. My job requires I fly once or twice a week. I have been in several emergency landings and now that I think back on it, I sure hope all those pilots were sober. 1.5oz or not. I would feel better if the pilot flying the tube I am in has zero alcohol in his system. I do trust people on weed more than people on alcohol. I have yet to meet my first "Ugly stoned" person. Quote
Seahawks Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 Where's the death match thread???? K-fed Vs. Archie. Quote
kevbone Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 I am such a better guitar player when I’m high. Or at least I think I am. Quote
archenemy Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 Where's the death match thread???? K-fed Vs. Archie. Not needed. K-Fed is DOA Quote
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