Christian Climbers.

[ryland_moore]

[JosephH]

JH, do you mean "Religion" in an organizational way or in "Religion' in the belief of a God way? I think you should differentiate. If it is the former, then I can see where you might have some issues. If it is the latter, then I would feel sorry for you.....

 

Both, don't waste your energy feeling sorry for me, feel sorry for the people around the world subjugated and slaughtered under the guise of gods of all stripe. As far as I'm concerned, all gods are simply tools of those that aspire to power, to divide, to control, and to manipulate populations. Few if any gods have ever escaped this fate.

[tvashtarkatena]

To bash anothers belief proves how shallow and unfulfilled that person who demeans them really feels inside. I also find it funny that only when topics of Christianity arise, do people become vehemently outraged and try to shut the whole thing down...

I don't understand it either. Christians are so loving, tolerant, and family oriented...

 

 

...not to mention enterpreneurial...

 

 

...and friendly. Just ask one...

 

 

...and certainly anything but kooky...

 

For those who feel "Rapture Ready"

 

I just don't understand why anyone would object to a group of folks that knows with absolute certainty that they're right and the rest of us are wrong. Anyone critical of Christianity is absolutely, without a doubt, shallow and unfulfilled. Thank you for pointing that out to us.

Edited February 6, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[JosephH]

Get used to it. Religion has always been an element of human existence and probably, in some fashion, always will.

 

Yep, particularly as expressed in hate, ignorance, genocide, and war...

[greenfork]

I guess the good Christians keep silent (wait... isn't that what you want??) so all you see are the intolerant outspoken folks.

If you brand all Christians that way, then haven't you become what you claim to hate?

 

You post a picture of followers of "Westboro baptist church" (which is just some dude and his extended family) and tie it to all Christians. Who's ignorant now?

Edited February 6, 2007 by greenfork

[JosephH]

Hate, ignorance, genocide and war would mostly likely still exist in the same amounts without religion.

 

I would disagree, religion very much preys upon, distills, and actualizes the base fears we all experience.

[ClimbingPanther]

 

I wish people would stop making the false association of these people with Christianity. To make a statement like "God Hates Fags" is so anti-Christian, it's really not funny. It's people who hate "fags." It makes me sick to see the name of God dragged through the mud like that.

Terrible things have been said and done in the name of everything under the sun, including atheism (China, anyone?). The mere fact that something bad was done in the name of a cause does not necessarily render the cause or its people bad so please don't make that jump.

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

If you brand all Christians that way, then haven't you become what you claim to hate?

 

If you insist...

 

 

 

You post a picture of followers of "Westboro baptist church" (which is just some dude and his extended family) and tie it to all Christians. Who's ignorant now?

 

The Westboro folks are just the extreme tip of a very, very large Christian iceberg with a public, legislatively active anti-gay agenda. The Christian belief that the being gay is something evil that must be extinguished is neither anomalous nor isolated. Granted, not ALL christians believe this...but tens of millions do (if Reverend Ted's former followership is any indication).

 

You guys definitely have a well deserved image problem. Perhaps instead of silence, you might try taking on some of your kookier, more hateful brethren.

 

I view Christianity, like any other religion involving dieties, as a cult. As long as it is benign and personal in nature (Christ like, if you will), fine. When it becomes proscriptive to non-believers, as is clearly the case with the anti-gay agenda, or any religious involvement in politics for that matter, that's when it's time to cha cha.

Edited February 6, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[joblo7]

i've met many christians who believe jesus invented god. most religions are based on some form of 'we got the truth' principle. christian climbers , muslim climbers, atheist climbers, dope climbers. people need affiliation.

spirituality is usually absent from religious freaks.

 

[ClimbingPanther]

Too much attention is being given the gay issue by Christians. Yeah, the Bible speaks out against it, but that's true of a lot of things. Would your average Christian be for a constitutional amendment against being overweight? HA!!! But few people, Christian or otherwise, hesitate to agree that laws against murder are a good thing.

I guess it boils down to the philosophy of law. Where should the line be drawn between things you consider morally wrong and must be legislated against, and things you consider morally wrong but will leave for each person to decide individually?

[joblo7]

any religion without a true spiritual leader eventually loses itself in social commentary.

[G-spotter]

Christian Griffith, Thong Climber?

[joblo7]

christianity sucks. spirituality rules!

[tvashtarkatena]

Too much attention is being given the gay issue by Christians. Yeah, the Bible speaks out against it, but that's true of a lot of things. Would your average Christian be for a constitutional amendment against being overweight? HA!!! But few people, Christian or otherwise, hesitate to agree that laws against murder are a good thing.

I guess it boils down to the philosophy of law. Where should the line be drawn between things you consider morally wrong and must be legislated against, and things you consider morally wrong but will leave for each person to decide individually?

 

Perhaps if you guys would let the murder rule slide a bit...just long enough to provide some of your more embarrassing constituents an opportunity to experience premature Rapture.

 

Regarding religion and government:

 

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...."

 

The Founding Fathers gave us a clause so clear and simple that we'll never stop arguing about it.

 

Regarding today's top Christian legislative issues:

 

Abortion: arguable and ambiguous. Mother's rights verses childs rights? A moral dilemna, and not solely a religious one.

 

Anti-gay agenda: Purely religious. No place in government at all. Zero.

 

Organized prayer in (public) schools: Uh...no. See above.

 

Public funding of religious organizations to deliver public services: Shaky in some cases, but not necessarily unconstitutional. A religious organization should be able to compete with a non religious organization to be funded to provide such services, as long as religious participation is NOT a requirement for using those services.

 

Tax exempt status for churches: If a church is a not for profit organization by the same definition used for non-religious not for profits, OK. Outside this definition, NO tax exempt status should be granted.

 

God in public officials public statements: No way. Keep it to yourself, pal. You either represent all of us, or you don't get the job.

 

God on money: Not a huge issue, but clearly unconstitutional. Of course, we do it anyway.

[wfinley]

Who was the Christian man who bolted Denali? Anyone know where the sport route is and what it's rated?

[joblo7]

jesus followers give god a bad name.

 

[AlpineK]

Christian Griffith, Thong Climber?

 

When I was working in Boulder that dude wanted me to drive a load of wood chips out to some crag that he was working on. I told him we'd dump chips in his driveway and not make a 2 hour drive.

[Off_White]

I don't think Christians have much to complain about their treatment by unbelievers. Surveys show again and again that we'll see a black Muslim lesbian president long before an atheist will be elected to that office.

 

I've actually found good inspiration from the Christians in how to relate to religion: respect the believer, despise the belief. Works for me.

 

I am a little surprised by the number of avowed atheist/agnostic folk on this site though, it's a relatively rare level of disbelief. Is the correlation with climbing in general, the Northwest (notably less religious than the rest of the country) or some special cc.com mojo?

[ericb]

I am a little surprised by the number of avowed atheist/agnostic folk on this site though, it's a relatively rare level of disbelief. Is the correlation with climbing in general, the Northwest (notably less religious than the rest of the country) or some special cc.com mojo?

 

This is an outstanding question. I wish I had the time this afternoon to attempt to answer it.

[ryland_moore]

I am not sure about areas. I grew up in the deep south and was raised in the Episcopal church, but now would consider myself a non-denominational Christian. Do I believe in a higher power? Sure. Do I believe in all that the Bible says? Not necassarily. Especially when dealing with wording on Creation.

 

However, in regards to other issues such as the gay and lesbian community, aboration issues, etc. in the end I believe you will either be accepted into heaven (whatever that is) or not. You will be judged based on how you live your life. Will I get there? Who knows. I've done some pretty stupid stuff in my life. Everybody "sins" whether you are Christian or not. So, it is not like Christians can say that they are going to heaven becasue they are hetero and those that are gay are not. To me it just isn't that simple. Also, it is tuff for me, becasue I do not necassarily believe being gay is a choice. And so there are a ton of gay Chri tians out there who are totally trapped. They can live their life in a Christian minner and not necessarily go to heaven because the Bible says that God is against it. In the end though, I believe we will all be judged, whther it is by a God, on a spiritual level or some other level. I would not pretend to have all of the answers, nor would I ever push my beliefs on anyone else. And finally I do not think others are "wrong." They just achieve their spiritual needs i a different manner. Maybe that is not being a true Christian if there is a definition, but that is what I choose to belive.

 

As an aside, there is a relatively new Christian church that just started up in Portland that focuses on the environment and protecting the environment, and being in portland, they already have a ton of new members.

[greenfork]

Granted, not ALL christians believe this...but tens of millions do (if Reverend Ted's former followership is any indication).

 

I view Christianity, like any other religion involving dieties, as a cult. As long as it is benign and personal in nature (Christ like, if you will), fine. When it becomes proscriptive to non-believers, as is clearly the case with the anti-gay agenda, or any religious involvement in politics for that matter, that's when it's time to cha cha.

 

I don't really know any Christians like that personally. I know they're out there, because I see them on TV, and in the news. I used to think exactly like you, but at some point I learned not to judge everyone by the "actions of many".

At some point I realized that most of the Christians I know are good people who don't throw religion in your face.

 

 

[Stewart]

JosephH, do you really feel that the monk's in Tibet are really hunting you like prey and trying to create war, genocide, etc. Tibetians may be some of the purist people on the face of the planet. But they don't go out and try to convert anyone, unlike other religions, people come to them. Well the Chinese will beat all there good thoughts right out of them.

 

I was once "a God fearing Man", I'm afraid of snake's, rats, heights, and the Religious Right.

 

Not everyone in a religion is evil, are they JosephH? Just 99%

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

I used to think exactly like you

 

I can say with absolute certainty that that is extremely unlikely.

[greenfork]

However, in regards to other issues such as the gay and lesbian community, aboration issues, etc. in the end I believe you will either be accepted into heaven (whatever that is) or not. You will be judged based on how you live your life.

 

I thought that the Christian view was that you would be accepted into heaven if you accepted Jesus as your saviour, and truly repented for your sins. Saviour is not earned through actions, but is a gift to be accepted (and so the theory goes... in gratitude for accepting this gift, you will want to live a righteous life).

 

On gay/lesbian issue, well I guess you are screwed if you believe the bible word for word and are practising gay - because that means you aren't repenting for your sin.

 

OTOH if you believe, much more reasonably, that the bible was written by some people with 2000 year old prejudices and cultural customs, but that the general message is what's important (love your neighbor as yourself, etc...) then you've got a way out.

 

[bstach]

True religion is about love, kindness, tolerance and compassion. It is about feeding the poor, justice for the helpless. Its about grace and forgivness. Its about unconditional acceptance and 2nd chances.

 

Sadly, so many atrocities have been perpetrated in the name of religion. And this continues today. But is it the fault of religion? I suggest not. Rather people without conscience use it as a political tool for pushing their personal agenda. This will never change.

 

Religion is not about shooting abortion doctors, flying planes into buildings etc. etc. etc.

 

I agree that Christians can be their own worse enemies when it comes to their image problem. It seems they are just as fallable as the rest of us - but its alot funner to rip on them when they do fall because of the high ideals they strive to. Also its just plain fun to say 'stupid Christian' instead of just 'stupid asshole'.

 

To let the nut cases of the world disuade you from pursuing *true religion*, this is your loss. And a sad loss indeed.