JosephH Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 we all go to our own grave in various states of enlightenment and ignorance. I believe with a bit of conscious awareness of self and others that the totality of the latter can be avoided, but that a complete state of the former can never be attained in this life (or in death). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekend_Climberz Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Religion can be basically boiled down to natural human instinct. Though we are one of the physically weakest predators on the planet, we have managed to thrive because we congregate together. Religion has been a tool of our own instinct to make our species the most dominate of the planet, which is basically what all animals' genes and physiology are geared to do. It's survival of the fittest and right now we're number one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I'd like to know what jobs you all have that allow you to debate (well, some of this drivel could be called that) on cc.com all day. They probably do this: The University of New South Wales' school of anatomy in Sydney had its license to conduct anatomy classes revoked after an audit revealed remains were sexually interfered with and piled together in coffins. Fred Hilmer, a professor at the university, said a senior member of the medical faculty had stood aside, one employee had resigned and processes were continuing in relation to two other staff members. Police are investigating claims about the mistreatment of cadavers, including fondling of breasts and vaginas, and using a head for degrading purposes, Fairfax newspapers reported today. The audit also revealed serious problems with labeling and storage of cadavers. Hilmer said the identities of staff members who came forward last October with allegations about the mishandling of body parts would be protected under the Protected Disclosures Act. Hilmer said he was taking the issue seriously and the surgical skills laboratory involved in the scandal remained closed. The university's Deputy Vice-Chancellor Professor Richard Henry said while no formal contact had yet been made to the families of body donors, he did have a message for them. "We'd like to apologize for any distress those families are suffering at the moment,'' Henry told ABC Radio. "The difficulty is we are still trying to fully understand what happened. "We are caught in the balance of not wanting to unnecessarily concern the families and at the same time we don't want to fail to apologize.'' The university was still in the process of identifying which bodies had been involved but once that was done, it would personally contact relatives, he said. Henry denied that the university had known about the allegations for three years. Henry said the university had no interest in making the supervisor, who stands accused of overseeing the mislabeling of body parts, or anyone else a scapegoat. The university planned to upgrade the laboratory, which is used to train surgeons rather than medical students, who use an unrelated facility at the campus, and microchip body parts, he said. "The university will not reapply for the anatomy license governing the lab until it is satisfied that all of these issues have been addressed.'' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirp Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 An Atheist's translation of Christian doctrine. C: We want to save you so you can gain access to heaven. A: We want to gain access to your savings. C: Whether or not you know it yet, you are one of God's children. A: You don't know who your daddy is, do you? C: If there is no God, how do you explain his glorious mountains? A: Why the hell didn't he make them closer to the pub? C: Jesus died for our sins. A: And I'm dying to sin again. C: God does not approve of the gay lifestyle. A: Twelve apostles and not a single woman? C: Accept Jesus as your personal saviour. A: Jesus, what I really need is a personal assistant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Religion can be basically boiled down to natural human instinct. Though we are one of the physically weakest predators on the planet, we have managed to thrive because we congregate together. Religion has been a tool of our own instinct to make our species the most dominate of the planet, which is basically what all animals' genes and physiology are geared to do. It's survival of the fittest and right now we're number one. I would augment this by adding that this survival by grouping required the ability to create a "social universe", ie., one that is subjective and separate from the actual physical universe. Humans took that ability and created all kinds of additional universes; language, art, religion, science, which reinforced our success in both the social and physical world. Unfortunately, somewhere along the way the latter became corrupted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Religion can be basically boiled down to natural human instinct. Though we are one of the physically weakest predators on the planet, we have managed to thrive because we congregate together. Religion has been a tool of our own instinct to make our species the most dominate of the planet, which is basically what all animals' genes and physiology are geared to do. It's survival of the fittest and right now we're number one. The fact that religion still plays a significant role in human society is about the only legitimate argument I can think of for attempting to refute evolution. Ignorance prevailing is one thing, clinging to it in desperation and fear is entirely another - the toys and weapons change, but not really all that much else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joblo7 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 religion and spirituality are the tools we are supposed to use to get to know ourselves intimately and then over the years of our lifetime, conquer the traits that are hurtful to ourselves and others. it will never be a safe heaven in itself. it is a road. spirituality we all have. V7 - when you say "spirituality", what exactly do you mean??? It's an overused term spirituality is the science that teaches who we are , who/what our source is and what is our purpose/goal is, in this our human life.it opens the door to the inner worlds. the spiritual life is the way there. life without spirituality is animal kingdom. life without religion is self- spirituality. life without god is absurdity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 The fact that religion still plays a significant role in human society is about the only legitimate argument I can think of for attempting to refute evolution. Ignorance prevailing is one thing, clinging to it in desperation and fear is entirely another - the toys and weapons change, but not really all that much else... I don't know, the survival of religion makes sense to me in both an evolutionary and practical sense. Survival of the fittest in hierarchical social groups (humans) requires stratification, subjugation, and commonality of belief. Religion is tailor made for that. It is the perfect justification for the top dogs to remain on top. Practically speaking, we still have the same brains we had 50,000 years ago when language supposedly sprang into being. This same brain is still producing and believing in imaginary universes in its spare time, just as it always has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 life without god is absurdity. That's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekend_Climberz Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 This same brain is still producing and believing in imaginary universes in its spare time, just as it always has. Some more than others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 spirituality is the science that teaches who we are , who/what our source is and what is our purpose/goal is, in this our human life.it opens the door to the inner worlds. the spiritual life is the way there. That is a perversion of the term 'science'. I'd buy it's the journey of learning about ourselves, each other, and the world we live in. life without spirituality is animal kingdom. I would posit that animals live a far more pure and spiritual life than we do - they just don't have to do as much learning to be capable of it and are not easily suseptible to corruption of their base spirit. life without religion is self-spirituality. Lexically I can go with that... life without god is absurdity. life without the absurdity of god - my idea of living a self-defined life where you are responsible for developing and managing your own life, destiny, and journey through this world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joblo7 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) spirituality is the science that teaches who we are , who/what our source is and what is our purpose/goal is, in this our human life.it opens the door to the inner worlds. the spiritual life is the way there. That is a perversion of the term 'science'. I'd buy it's the journey of learning about ourselves, each other, and the world we live in. virendra7 : science; 'archaic knowledge of any kind' life without spirituality is animal kingdom. I would posit that animals live a far more pure and spiritual life than we do - they just don't have to do as much learning to be capable of it and are not easily suseptible to corruption of their base spirit. virendra7 :the animal world is ; kill and be happy. reproduce. and repeat. we clearly see the same traits in some humans. generally it indicates their very recent promotion to the human race. the idea of pure animals is romantic but generally false. Edited February 7, 2007 by virendra7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimbingPanther Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I'd like to know what jobs you all have that allow you to debate (well, some of this drivel could be called that) on cc.com all day. just one of the few benefits that goes along with the curse of salary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joblo7 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 spirituality is the science that teaches who we are ,life without god is absurdity. life without the absurdity of god - my idea of living a self-defined life where you are responsible for developing and managing your own life, destiny, and journey through this world. that concept of self reliance and self control is a form of denial and an illusion.it can however take you far along the path of self enlightenment and human respect if it is balanced with humility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Religion is child abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joblo7 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I'd like to know what jobs you all have that allow you to debate (well, some of this drivel could be called that) on cc.com all day. just one of the few benefits that goes along with the curse of salary we're all between jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joblo7 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Religion is child abuse. been there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 The beauty of atheism is that, once you determine that we are alone, you also realize that all we have is each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Anyone who would set us apart from the animals is mistaken. We are simply a species of primate with delusions of grandeur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 The beauty of atheism is that, once you determine that we are alone, you also realize that all we have is each other. Yep, each other and all the other current expressions of the pool of planetary DNA our lives completely depend on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 JosephH, do you really feel that the monk's in Tibet are really hunting you like prey and trying to create war, genocide, etc. Tibetans may be some of the purist people on the face of the planet. But they don't go out and try to convert anyone, unlike other religions, people come to them. Well the Chinese will beat all there good thoughts right out of them. I was once "a God fearing Man", I'm afraid of snake's, rats, heights, and the Religious Right. Not everyone in a religion is evil, are they JosephH? Just 99% Stewart, sorry I missed this earlier... I think the Tibetans have to be taken in context. I personally believe they are an interesting example of the many curious ways human cultures evolve in relative geographic isolation. I also think you have to look not just at the Tibet of today or of recent years, but that you have to look at the history. When you do that you find that the Tibetans and Chinese have been interlocked on every front for thousands of years. China now lords over Tibet, but for centuries it was the other way around with the Tibetan army lording over an empire that stretched from Bengal to Mongolia. I think some of the notions and legendary myths of both Bhuddism and Hinduism lend themselves to developing and reinforcing caste systems, carefully divided material wealth, and fairly unforgiving societal structures. In some places this could be said to be a matter of resources and survival except that it is equally true in areas where resources were plentiful. We associate [Tibetan] Bhuddism with peace today, but historically it has wielded vast armies and built great empires by force. The answer to the question you ask is very dependent on when and whom you ask. The answers today would be different than if you asked a Southern Chinese serf about Tibetan Bhuddism in 760CE, a Moore in Spain about Catholicism during the Inquisition, or a member of my Wife's tribe about Christianity anytime since the Lewis and Clark expedition. Though in the case of my Wife's tribe you have to ask the few holed up on this side of the border, as the christians on the Canadian side have officially designated them "Extinct" - go figure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 The beauty of atheism is that, once you determine that we are alone, you also realize that all we have is each other. Yep, each other and all the other current expressions of the pool of planetary DNA our lives completely depend on... That's exactly what I meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joblo7 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 not much separates the god loving man from the humanity loving man. a true god lover must and shall love humanity as his god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joblo7 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 well put. i'm sure some tibetans feel (or used to) that we are a peace loving, helpfull, evolved people. thats mostly a romantic view.the battle of good and evil forces rages on and fluctuates and relocates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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