Christian Climbers.

[joblo7]

the atheist says to god;

dear sir, given the difficulty in achieving oneness with your highness, i would request the permission to ignore your beloved existence until further notice.

god 's answer; ... as you wish .

[ivan]

We are simply a species of primate with delusions of grandeur.

not to mention really nifty digital watches

[olyclimber]

the ingenuity of our species clearly sets us apart. if you had to drive 600 miles and you didn't want to stop to go to the bathroom, what would you do?

[G-spotter]

1) Cut a hole under the drivers' seat

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Religion can be basically boiled down to natural human instinct. Though we are one of the physically weakest predators on the planet, we have managed to thrive because we congregate together. Religion has been a tool of our own instinct to make our species the most dominate of the planet, which is basically what all animals' genes and physiology are geared to do. It's survival of the fittest and right now we're number one.

 

The fact that religion still plays a significant role in human society is about the only legitimate argument I can think of for attempting to refute evolution. Ignorance prevailing is one thing, clinging to it in desperation and fear is entirely another - the toys and weapons change, but not really all that much else...

 

The fact that people take mind-altering, hallucinogenics, think it enhances their performance, and proudly spew off on it on the intrafucking web, and then posit some type of personal wisdom transcending the beliefs of billions over millenia - that's a truly legitimate argument to refute evolution.

 

[archenemy]

Hallucinogenics may very well enhance performance, much as caffeine does. People have used these substances for quite some time; as they have used fasting and sleep deprivation to get closer to their god(s). Sometimes near-death experiences bring people closer to God. Sometimes a dream or an insight does. Who is to know?

[olyclimber]

its one of those things, unless you take it and transcend, you'll never know. if you never take the leap of faith, you'll never believe. and of coure if you do either of those things you'll never know what its like to be like you KK.

 

of course, proudly spewing about your choice, that does take trancendence.

[sexual_chocolate]

Religion can be basically boiled down to natural human instinct. Though we are one of the physically weakest predators on the planet, we have managed to thrive because we congregate together. Religion has been a tool of our own instinct to make our species the most dominate of the planet, which is basically what all animals' genes and physiology are geared to do. It's survival of the fittest and right now we're number one.

 

The fact that religion still plays a significant role in human society is about the only legitimate argument I can think of for attempting to refute evolution. Ignorance prevailing is one thing, clinging to it in desperation and fear is entirely another - the toys and weapons change, but not really all that much else...

 

The fact that people take mind-altering, hallucinogenics, think it enhances their performance, and proudly spew off on it on the intrafucking web, and then posit some type of personal wisdom transcending the beliefs of billions over millenia - that's a truly legitimate argument to refute evolution.

 

 

? truth in numbers?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

its one of those things, unless you take it and transcend, you'll never know. if you never take the leap of faith, you'll never believe. and of coure if you do either of those things you'll never know what its like to be like you KK.

 

of course, proudly spewing about your choice, that does take trancendence.

 

bullshit. you can try to "define down deviancy" all you want, but I ain't drinking the Kool-Aid.

 

We've got a thread here with a bunch of self-righteous, atheist religion bashers spewing off their fucking bullshit as if *they* have some answer. What answer is that, pray tell? we are accidents of nature destined to be nothing but worm food? Your life and consciousness is snuffed out, end of story? yeah real inspiring. and all the more so, when it is accompanied by obvious pain and escapism - including excessive hallucinogenic drug use. I'm so inspired by this hopeful message, and the obvious happiness of its purveyors. Truly we must all "evolve" to think this way, and make appropriate, concomitant, "liberating" choices in our life that will make us oh so much happier. just look how happy it makes its proponents who are so sure of their beliefs that they react with explosive vitriol at any suggestion that God exists.

 

and as for those crazy Christians we keep hearing about - trying to "force" everyone to believe... Sorry, but I don't see anyone here giving sermons trying to convert and force their beliefs. the only zealots I see here are the hate-filled atheists.

 

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Hallucinogenics may very well enhance performance, much as caffeine does. People have used these substances for quite some time; as they have used fasting and sleep deprivation to get closer to their god(s). Sometimes near-death experiences bring people closer to God. Sometimes a dream or an insight does. Who is to know?

 

man made chemicals are artificial, much more potent, and when used recreationally - destructive. use of peyote by central americans for example is not equivalent to taking 25 hits of acid by any stretch.

 

Edited February 7, 2007 by KaskadskyjKozak

[olyclimber]

its one of those things, unless you take it and transcend, you'll never know. if you never take the leap of faith, you'll never believe. and of coure if you do either of those things you'll never know what its like to be like you KK.

 

of course, proudly spewing about your choice, that does take trancendence.

 

bullshit. you can try to "define down deviancy" all you want, but I ain't drinking the Kool-Aid.

 

We've got a thread here with a bunch of self-righteous, atheist religion bashers spewing off their fucking bullshit as if *they* have some answer. What answer is that, pray tell? we are accidents of nature destined to be nothing but worm food? Your life and consciousness is snuffed out, end of story? yeah real inspiring. and all the more so, when it is accompanied by obvious pain and escapism - including excessive hallucinogenic drug use. I'm so inspired by this hopeful message, and the obvious happiness of its purveyors. Truly we must all "evolve" to think this way, and make appropriate, concomitant, "liberating" choices in our life that will make us oh so much happier. just look how happy it makes its proponents who are so sure of their beliefs that they react with explosive vitriol at any suggestion that God exists.

 

and as for those crazy Christians we keep hearing about - trying to "force" everyone to believe... Sorry, but I don't see anyone here giving sermons trying to convert and force their beliefs. the only zealots I see here are the hate-filled atheists.

 

 

 

nevermind the spew, that is like gravity, it just happens.

 

you can talk shit about what others experience, but you'll never know, will you. its the same problem when someone choses to take a hallucinogen or to take a leap in faith (or both). they both take you down a path that unless you do it yourself, you can't comment empirically. sure, you can shovel shit with the rest of them if it makes you feel better.

[olyclimber]

Hallucinogenics may very well enhance performance, much as caffeine does. People have used these substances for quite some time; as they have used fasting and sleep deprivation to get closer to their god(s). Sometimes near-death experiences bring people closer to God. Sometimes a dream or an insight does. Who is to know?

 

man made chemicals are artificial, much more potent, and when used recreationally - destructive. use of peyote by central americans for example is not equivalent to taking 25 hits of acid by any stretch.

 

you're speaking from experience? or you know medically what the difference is? or you're talking out of your ass?

[JosephH]

The fact that people take mind-altering, hallucinogenics, think it enhances their performance, and proudly spew off on it on the intrafucking web, and then posit some type of personal wisdom transcending the beliefs of billions over millenia - that's a truly legitimate argument to refute evolution.

 

Let's see, well, I'd say you clearly have no personal knowledge or experience with the effects of hallucinogens relative to climbing performance; either that or you are a reformed stoner who dropped sh#t willy-nilly in which case you still have no personal knowledge or experience with said effects relative to climbing performance.

 

As for the "transcending the beliefs of billions over millenia ", yes sir, those billions were subject to religious beliefs designed to drive people apart with hate, racism, genocide, and war that entire millenia. You'd think a little introspection might lead to a somewhat different outcome over that same period, but of course religion was never designed for that purpose. As a matter of fact, I'd say the use of religion for those purposes definitely consitutes intelligent design - ruthless and inhumane - but, definitely quite ingenious.

[JosephH]

man made chemicals are artificial, much more potent, and when used recreationally - destructive. use of peyote by central americans for example is not equivalent to taking 25 hits of acid by any stretch.

 

Again, you simply just have no idea what you're talking about do you...?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

man made chemicals are artificial, much more potent, and when used recreationally - destructive. use of peyote by central americans for example is not equivalent to taking 25 hits of acid by any stretch.

 

Again, you simply just have no idea what you're talking about do you...?

 

Clearly, I need to fuck up my brain chemistry with a couple of sheets of 'cid to be as "enlightened" as you are.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

The fact that people take mind-altering, hallucinogenics, think it enhances their performance, and proudly spew off on it on the intrafucking web, and then posit some type of personal wisdom transcending the beliefs of billions over millenia - that's a truly legitimate argument to refute evolution.

 

Let's see, well, I'd say you clearly have no personal knowledge or experience with the effects of hallucinogens relative to climbing performance; either that or you are a reformed stoner who dropped sh#t willy-nilly in which case you still have no personal knowledge or experience with said effects relative to climbing performance.

 

As for the "transcending the beliefs of billions over millenia ", yes sir, those billions were subject to religious beliefs designed to drive people apart with hate, racism, genocide, and war that entire millenia. You'd think a little introspection might lead to a somewhat different outcome over that same period, but of course religion was never designed for that purpose. As a matter of fact, I'd say the use of religion for those purposes definitely consitutes intelligent design - ruthless and inhumane - but, definitely quite ingenious.

 

hate, racism and genocide are not products of religion but products of mankind. before there was mass, organized religion, on the scale of Christianity or Islam, all these evils existed and were perpetuated and even considered to be perfectly natural and fine. And indeed, those who called religion the "opiate of the masses" have a hefty 100 million life body count to their credit, along with plenty of hatred, ethnic cleansing, and outright genocide. Of course, those facts are easy to overlook with your bigoted, anti-religious blinders on, now isn't it.

[bstach]

This debate sure gets alot of attention on here...jeez you guys should be working or climbing.

 

This should all be settled Elijah style (1 Kings 18). Old Testament prophets knew how to kick ass!!

[JosephH]

Clearly, I need to fuck up my brain chemistry with a couple of sheets of 'cid to be as "enlightened" as you are.

 

I don't know, hell, it might be worth a try as opposed to posting clueless drivel on a subject you clearly know nothing about. Having put up some routes in the mid-70's that were uprated to .12c's years later - two of them tripping after they repulsed 20-25 solid [straight] attempts by a few of us at the top of our game - I'm at least making conjecture vaguely informed by personal experience.

[olyclimber]

This debate sure gets alot of attention on here...jeez you guys should be working or climbing.

 

This should all be settled Elijah style (1 Kings 18). Old Testament prophets knew how to kick ass!!

 

but imagine what they could have done with the innernut!

 

[JosephH]

hate, racism and genocide are not products of religion but products of mankind. before there was mass, organized religion, on the scale of Christianity or Islam, all these evils existed and were perpetuated and even considered to be perfectly natural and fine. And indeed, those who called religion the "opiate of the masses" have a hefty 100 million life body count to their credit, along with plenty of hatred, ethnic cleansing, and outright genocide. Of course, those facts are easy to overlook with your bigoted, anti-religious blinders on, now isn't it.

 

Well, in this case religion is an excellent case study in evolution starting with say, the Hood River phone book and the plethora of splintered sects presented there. Track them back to their roots in pre-history and one sees religion has played the same role all along. As to Stalin and Mao - they eschewed the cover of theistic authority, but adopted and adapted every single lesson and methodology ever employed by organized religion during their rule. Both their regimes were driven by the exact same fear of being percieved or suspected of not accepting dogma proffered as fact. Dogma and fear are the provence of dictators of all stripe - religious, athiest, and Texan - but the employment of religion is where these manipulative techniques have been perfected since humans were capable of speech.

[tvashtarkatena]

its one of those things, unless you take it and transcend, you'll never know. if you never take the leap of faith, you'll never believe. and of coure if you do either of those things you'll never know what its like to be like you KK.

 

of course, proudly spewing about your choice, that does take trancendence.

 

bullshit. you can try to "define down deviancy" all you want, but I ain't drinking the Kool-Aid.

 

We've got a thread here with a bunch of self-righteous, atheist religion bashers spewing off their fucking bullshit as if *they* have some answer. What answer is that, pray tell? we are accidents of nature destined to be nothing but worm food? Your life and consciousness is snuffed out, end of story? yeah real inspiring. and all the more so, when it is accompanied by obvious pain and escapism - including excessive hallucinogenic drug use. I'm so inspired by this hopeful message, and the obvious happiness of its purveyors. Truly we must all "evolve" to think this way, and make appropriate, concomitant, "liberating" choices in our life that will make us oh so much happier. just look how happy it makes its proponents who are so sure of their beliefs that they react with explosive vitriol at any suggestion that God exists.

 

and as for those crazy Christians we keep hearing about - trying to "force" everyone to believe... Sorry, but I don't see anyone here giving sermons trying to convert and force their beliefs. the only zealots I see here are the hate-filled atheists.

 

 

 

Nauh, dis funny. We gotz da haite fil' ath'ist, we' gotz da crazy chrisht'nz, we got it awl heah own dis saht, butt wun thang we can' recreate, wit awl owuh bo-shi n such, z da feelin wayin da triple K wayz own iahn wit hiz supah-wizdum.

 

Mahn, dat katz gottit goin' on. He cut tru ebbybodies awgumin, straight up, no chasuh. Da wizdom o dat dood...why don' he run fo gob'mint?

[joblo7]

kkk trying to fight hate with power??? wisdom?

[ericb]

.....those billions were subject to religious beliefs designed to drive people apart with hate, racism, genocide, and war that entire millenia.....

 

Hey Joseph - by saying the religious beliefs were designed, I'm assuming you are implying it is part of the original doctrine - can you please find some of Jesus' teachings (his words) that promote hate, racism, genocide, and war.?

Edited February 7, 2007 by ericb

[sexual_chocolate]

didn't jesus say to hate your parents?

 

but jesus wasn't out creating a "religion" either, was he?

[Seahawks]

its one of those things, unless you take it and transcend, you'll never know. if you never take the leap of faith, you'll never believe. and of coure if you do either of those things you'll never know what its like to be like you KK.

 

of course, proudly spewing about your choice, that does take trancendence.

 

bullshit. you can try to "define down deviancy" all you want, but I ain't drinking the Kool-Aid.

 

We've got a thread here with a bunch of self-righteous, atheist religion bashers spewing off their fucking bullshit as if *they* have some answer. What answer is that, pray tell? we are accidents of nature destined to be nothing but worm food? Your life and consciousness is snuffed out, end of story? yeah real inspiring. and all the more so, when it is accompanied by obvious pain and escapism - including excessive hallucinogenic drug use. I'm so inspired by this hopeful message, and the obvious happiness of its purveyors. Truly we must all "evolve" to think this way, and make appropriate, concomitant, "liberating" choices in our life that will make us oh so much happier. just look how happy it makes its proponents who are so sure of their beliefs that they react with explosive vitriol at any suggestion that God exists.

 

and as for those crazy Christians we keep hearing about - trying to "force" everyone to believe... Sorry, but I don't see anyone here giving sermons trying to convert and force their beliefs. the only zealots I see here are the hate-filled atheists.

 

 

 

Finally some common sense. How many posts to get there. No sense in arguing with them. They have made up there minds to be hate filled. Little Hitlers in the making.