AT gear questions

[manimal]

What kind/size/ect. of AT skis should I get? I am about5'10" and 150 lbs.I have never really skied before, and due to the resort scene and expense of lift tickets I am not interested in alpine skiing, but have wanted to ski for a while. Any tips would be appreciated.

[AlpineK]

I don't think I can tell you what size to get. Go to a ski shop and get a size that feels like something you would feel comfortable skiing on.

 

I've done a bunch of resort skiing with AT gear. Personally I have a dynafit set up, but they will all work. All I can say is avoid mogals. It's not impossible, but it isn't good training for real AT skiing.

[gapertimmy]

Manimal-

Since you haven't really skied before, I'd say your best bet would be to rent some AT gear and go check it out before you drop the coin on a setup.

 

Like all skiing gear, AT gear is pretty spendy, so whenever you can try before you buy, you'll be best off.

 

As for specific gear types/brands, it depends on what type of skiing you want to do. Many people like AlpineK are fans of Dynafit bindings due to their lightness, and others like myself are fans of heavier binders like Fritcschi Freerides. Each have a time and place and have pro's and cons.

 

So go find a shop that has gear you can demo, try things out, and then start price shopping. Also if you can hold out till Spring, you will save big $ by buying gear on closeout.

[BirdDog]

If you're in the Seattle area, Marmot is having a demo day @ Snowqualmie Pass. Check 'em out. You're probably better off to start skiiing on groomed slopes than the backcountry.

 

Here's the cc.com link: http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/624823/page/1#Post624823

[Weekend_Climberz]

Manimal,

 

Also check out www.turns-all-year.com, and maybe ask the same question. The people there are all great and can provide you with a plethora of information on AT ski gear. You may find that your answer is posted if you do a little searching. Cheers

[Kevin_Matlock]

Manimal-

Since you haven't really skied before, I'd say your best bet would be to rent some AT gear and go check it out before you drop the coin on a setup.

 

Like all skiing gear, AT gear is pretty spendy, so whenever you can try before you buy, you'll be best off.

 

What he said.

 

I got back into skiing a few years ago after a long time off. I thought I'd jump right back into it but it aint that easy. In a similar thread, someone made the comment that you've got to be pretty good resort skier to be decent in the back country and it can take a few years before you get dialed in. I totally buy this. Just think of lift tickets as class "tuition". You are going to have a hell of a hard time getting good in ungroomed conditions if you can't even ski down a nice groomed run.

 

As far as gear, for AT shit I got old Silvretta (sp?) 404 bindings with tele boots. This bastardized mix works decently well for back country as well as on-piste.

 

But, I'd just go with a decent downhill setup for now and practice a whole lot before sinking a butt-load of money into something that you will have a hard time using. This will save you a ton of frustration in the end.

[wfinley]

You can find good used AT setups for around $300. Good used boots will be around $200. Watch eBay, Teletips and Craigslist and you'll find something. As for what to get; get a good mid-fat ski - i.e. - something around 112 in the shovel. For bindings get whatever you can find: Used Fritschis can always be found, Dynafits are super sexy but expensive and you'll need newer boots, Naxos will be found cheap but that's cause they're heavy and always breaking. Silvrettas can be had for $100 but the older models are less than perfect when it comes to releasing.

 

If you take your time searching a total package can be had for less than $500. (Last year I set my brother up with an intro AT package for $300; $100 for Silvrettas, $50 for some old beater boots, $100 for skis and $50 for skins.)

 

As for learning... you don't need to go to a resort. If you ask me learning to ski at a resort is like learning to climb at a gym. Get outside and start skiing. Your learning curve will be a lot lower than if you went to a resort - but you'll be stronger, have way more fun, can ski with your mutt and don't have to deal with obnoxious kids laughing at your neon green ski bibs.

[Kevin_Matlock]

wfinley,

Did you get the part where he mentioned that he has never really skied before?

Would you take someone who has never skied and point them down a backcountry slope??? I sure wouldn't.

Remember when you first learned how to ski... you likely did the little rope tow thing. There aren't many who, first season out, are going to RIP down a black run very well and in control much less a raw, uncut slope with variables like crust, ice, corn, powder, trees, etc etc etc.

 

I dislike resorts as much as the next guy (probably more) but I think you really need to at least learn how the gear works before you try and take a crash course (litterally).

 

 

[dbconlin]

I agree you should probably start off with at least a couple of days at a resort before heading into the backcountry. You should also invest in some avalanche awareness training and you will need to buy a shovel/beacon/probe at the minimum, in addition to ski equipment. If you are relatively fit and agile, though, I don't see why you couldn't be in the backcountry very quickly, especially on AT gear (easier than tele).

 

Ideally, you will want:

1. good boots; I don't think this is the place to skimp. Get thermoformable liners and have them custom fit.

2. bindings; I don't know much about 'em since I am a tele skier, but I would look for some used ones per the suggestions above unless you have a lot of money to spend, in which case just buy the best (whatever that may be).

3. skis; For your size and considering your desire to do mostly backcountry, I would look for a ski in the upper 170s cm length and with a waist of 86-92 mm. However, for a beginner, I think the skis are a good place to save a bunch of money by buying something used and/or cheap. Sometimes stores like Gart Sports have some really cheap downhill skis brand new; just make sure they don't have integrated bindings or whatever.

4. poles; ideally you will want adjustable poles, but you could start off with regular cheap ski poles, maybe in the 120 cm size range; I guess the way to size them is to hold them while standing and your elbow should make about a 90 degree bend.

5. skins; good luck finding used ones in good shape. Otherwise you are looking to pay at least $100. BD/Ascension, Backcountry Access, and G3 all make good skins. You will need to size them to your skis, which is a whole other controversy. The easiest (although arguably not the best) way to do this is to buy skins that are the largest size narrower than the waist of your ski. Otherwise, you can go larger and trim them to fit.

[counterfeitfake]

It might not be the advice you want to hear, but the best thing would be to buy some cheapo alpine skis and spend the year on the lifts learning how to use them. Skiing in the backcountry is hard and if you're a total beginner you're just going to be frustrated.

 

I see plenty of skis on craigslist for under $100 that would be fine for a beginner. Like right here, for example. The boots are the most important part but you should still be able to find something cheap that will work.

[wfinley]

FWIW I learned to ski in the backcountry and have hauled many a friend and family up the slopes for their first ski trip ever. It's possible, albeit quite a bit harder - and as said you will be frustrated - however in my opinion, the effort is worth it.

[cj001f]

There are probably a few people who've learned completely in the back country - and they've learned in spite of their learning environment, not because of it. It's pretty damn hard to become a decent skier only in the back country. Why? Because you can easily ski 20-40x more vertical feet in a day at a resort, getting 20x-40x the skiing. You also have plenty of other skiers technique to watch from the reviewing stand (chairlift).

 

Buy some cheap alpine skis, or go for a beginner rental package and see if you like it.

[Kevin_Matlock]

FWIW I learned to ski in the backcountry and have hauled many a friend and family up the slopes for their first ski trip ever. It's possible, albeit quite a bit harder - and as said you will be frustrated - however in my opinion, the effort is worth it.

 

After your first trip to a resort, did you find it weird/hard/super-easy? Your point about starting in the B/C has me wondering if there are techniques or habits that don't translate very well to a groomed slope.

 

I can't really think of any, but I could see the potential for it.

 

Sorry for the drift, but I'm just wondering...

 

 

[letsroll]

If I were you I would take a year at the resorts. You will save yourself a lot of time and frustration. The best way to learn or improve your ability is to get as many turns in as possible during a day and the only way to do that is at a resort. It is $$$ but in the long run it will pay off huge. As for AT gear I like the Fritcschi Freerides for breakable crust and easy entry in the pow. I matched the Freerides with the Gatama's. This setup is really heavy and sucks for long trips. If I am going to skin a lot and breakable crust is non-issue I like to us Dinafit bindings (very light setup) with looks to be this years Atomic Kailas. If you are trying to save some money don't skimp on your boots!!! You can find other kinds of fritchies on sale if you look around. Good luck and have fun.

[beecher]

Hey Manimal, I think it's great that you want to get into skiing without visiting a resort. Don't let anybody tell you it's too hard for you. There are plenty of very easy "backcountry" slopes to practice on, if that's what you need. Skiing did not begin with chairlifts, and with today's equipment you should be able to learn without riding one, unless your legs and ass are made of jell-o puddin'.

 

You'll want a mid-fat ski that is not ridiculously stiff (alpine ski marketed as "all-mountain", or something sold as a touring ski). I would recommend avoiding foam core skis. You will most likely be happy with fairly short skis to get started on, probably no longer than 170 or 175cm. With midfats this should still offer enough surface area to float your 150lbs. It will be well worth your while to borrow, rent, or demo a few pairs before investing in your own gear. Trouble with demo days is they'll be trying to sell you the newest most expensive stuff.

Skis I can recommend are K2 Shuksan & Fisher Big Stix. There are lots of other good ones available that I've never tried.

[manimal]

Thanks for all the input. Just out of curiosity, can I get a "telemark" ski like the Atomic Kontega and put AT bindings on it?

[Winter]

yes.

[letsroll]

yes

[wfinley]

After your first trip to a resort, did you find it weird/hard/super-easy? Your point about starting in the B/C has me wondering if there are techniques or habits that don't translate very well to a groomed slope. I can't really think of any, but I could see the potential for it. Sorry for the drift, but I'm just wondering...

 

I really can't speak for others - many of my friends up here learned to ski BC and ski as well as anyone who learned to ski at the resort. From my standpoint I learned to ski so I could climb - and thus developed a wide stance so I could ski with a big pack. Unfortunately I never learned the mini-skirt trick and still ski with a big wide stance. The drawback to this is my ski turns aren't sexy; the plus is that come spring when I'm roped up with a giant pack I don't have to adjust my style.

 

The other potential drawback for learning at a resort and then going BC is that the skier will be tempted to ski stuff he or she shouldn't be on without proper avalanche and route finding techniques. Whereas those who learn to ski in the BC learn to analyze snow and conditions from the start.

 

 

You'll want a mid-fat ski that is not ridiculously stiff (alpine ski marketed as "all-mountain", or something sold as a touring ski). ...Skis I can recommend are K2 Shuksan & Fisher Big Stix.

 

Check out Couloir Mag's ski reviews here: http://www.couloirmag.com/gear/category_index2.php?categorytype=78

 

If you hunt around you can usually find an older mid-fat ski in the $150-200 range. Also watch this board for deals: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9

[Kevin_Matlock]

Unfortunately I never learned the mini-skirt trick

 

Got the visual... that's a good one.

 

Yeah, my stance is definitely on the wider side too; mainly because I'm just a "so-so" skier. So when I do the odd B/C run it doesn't come as too much of a tramatic event since I'm already in "BC-mode".

 

Makes sense... thanx. Figured their might be some differences somehow.

 

 

 

[PaulB]

Yeah, my stance is definitely on the wider side too; mainly because I'm just a "so-so" skier. So when I do the odd B/C run it doesn't come as too much of a tramatic event since I'm already in "BC-mode".

Nothing wrong with a wide stance for either alpine or tele. A wide stance equals stability & balance whether you're busting through backcountry crud or carving high speed turns on groomers. These guys definitely use a wide stance:

 

Herman Maier

 

Bode Miller

 

As for learning at the resorts or in the BC, I'd say do both. Buy a cheap AT setup and ride the lifts as often as you can afford to, but also get out in the BC so you can start learning all the stuff that goes with that side of it as well.

[JayB]

When it comes to actual skiing technique - as in the physical motions required to descend a given slope - I'm not sure what BC skiing can do for you with respect to learning that resort skiing in the Northwest can't. Head somewhere like Crystal and Baker and hike for five minutes and you're into the same kind of terrain and variable snowpack that you'd run into in the BC, sans avy-hazard, and get about 30X the vertical in that you'd get in pure BC mode.

 

If your plan is to suck for much longer than necessary, then the pure BC model is proably the best strategy, though.

 

 

[montypiton]

50 years ago, every skier learned on ungroomed snow, and on equipment far less forgiving than the very worst crap you could dig up today. don't let anyone tell you that you need resort support to get there. yeah, you might learn quicker at a groomed, lift-served slope, but if you can find a halfway decent mentor, you might learn just as quickly in gentle backcountry terrain. And gear doesn't have to break the bank. Last winter, I equipped my two teenage sons for a/t skiing for less than $100.00 apiece! Fritschi model 88 bindings (not state of the art, but perfectly functional) are available on ebay for less than $25 per pair, and brand-new skis, still in the wrapper, were less than $60 per pair. They did their first backcountry tours in old plastic mountaineering boots that I had never got rid of, and had no trouble, but that might be because they've both skied since they were old enough to stand. More critical than the gear you choose initially (you'll probably upgrade within a couple of seasons) is finding some knowledgeable soul willing to drag you along on a few beginner-level tours. Clubs and college outdoor programs are good places to look for such individuals. good luck!

[cj001f]

50 years ago, every skier learned on ungroomed snow, and on equipment far less forgiving than the very worst crap you could dig up today. don't let anyone tell you that you need resort support to get there. yeah, you might learn quicker at a groomed, lift-served slope, but if you can find a halfway decent mentor, you might learn just as quickly in gentle backcountry terrain. And gear doesn't have to break the bank. Last winter, I equipped my two teenage sons for a/t skiing for less than $100.00 apiece! Fritschi model 88 bindings (not state of the art, but perfectly functional) are available on ebay for less than $25 per pair, and brand-new skis, still in the wrapper, were less than $60 per pair. They did their first backcountry tours in old plastic mountaineering boots that I had never got rid of, and had no trouble, but that might be because they've both skied since they were old enough to stand. More critical than the gear you choose initially (you'll probably upgrade within a couple of seasons) is finding some knowledgeable soul willing to drag you along on a few beginner-level tours. Clubs and college outdoor programs are good places to look for such individuals. good luck!

 

That's excellent advice if you want to ski like they did 20 or 50 years ago.... i.e. you want to ski like shit. Which is exactly they way 90-99% of them skiied.

 

If all you want to do is get out in the snow, buy snowshoes.

[crazy_t]

You should learn at the area. Get some lessons, then ride the lifts. You could get seriously hurt + as a blatant beginner in the backcountry if you can't ski in control.

 

I ski mainly backcountry, for many reasons. But I've been on skis since before I was 2, and have a feel for skis, the snow and how it varies, not to mention avalanche awareness and rescue etc. But for you, I think regardless of all that, the shortest distance between where you are now and where you want to be begins with getting dialed in on skiing, at a resort. The effort is definitely worth it. Just suck it up, put your vision of stepping right into the right pair of AT skis and making powder turns on hold for now and pay your dues for a little bit. Buy a used AT setup that suits you generally, and once you are more solid on your skis skin up the groomed slopes sometimes as part of your routine. Take an avalanche course this winter. Ease into it, so you can enjoy it for years.

 

That's just my advice, as Pigpen said "you heard what the man said, the warning is there, just do what you want!". Snowboarding is quicker to learn, btw. But that's another thing...