Start the impeachment process

[fear_and_greed]

Now that those Republican liars have lost their grip on absolute power, it'd be nice to see investigations leading to impeachment or better yet crimes against humanity.

Deputy fuerher Rummys out, I wonder how many more of the inner cadre can be ousted. The truly evil Cheney should be next.

Maybe there is hope for you yanks after all.

[Off_White]

I don't think that the fact that Republicans began using impeachment as a partisan scourge back in the Clinton era means a power shift should result in payback. I want to see solid evidence before we bandy the idea about, though investigations may well be called for. I want to see some clear and intentional violations of law that result in harm to our nation as the bar for the rather extreme act of removing an elected official.

 

Then again, I'm a proud neo-lib, and unlike many of our conservative brethern we don't believe in putting our boot on the neck of the losers, anymore than we believe that torture is a viable tool for the good guys.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Now that those Republican liars have lost their grip on absolute power, it'd be nice to see investigations leading to impeachment or better yet crimes against humanity.

Deputy fuerher Rummys out, I wonder how many more of the inner cadre can be ousted. The truly evil Cheney should be next.

Maybe there is hope for you yanks after all.

 

 

[counterfeitfake]

Then again, I'm a proud neo-lib, and unlike many of our conservative brethern we don't believe in putting our boot on the neck of the losers, anymore than we believe that torture is a viable tool for the good guys.

 

I eagerly wait to see whether or not this is true.

[Off_White]

Well, I can only speak for myself, I don't have a lot of sway with the democratic party, since they no doubt consider me as fringe as the republicans do.

[JayB]

I don't think that the fact that Republicans began using impeachment as a partisan scourge back in the Clinton era means a power shift should result in payback. I want to see solid evidence before we bandy the idea about, though investigations may well be called for. I want to see some clear and intentional violations of law that result in harm to our nation as the bar for the rather extreme act of removing an elected official.

 

Then again, I'm a proud neo-lib, and unlike many of our conservative brethern we don't believe in putting our boot on the neck of the losers, anymore than we believe that torture is a viable tool for the good guys.

 

That's an admirable position to take, but I don't think its an ideal that's ever been achieved in practice. The only thing that will stay the Democrat's hand is the fact that it would have more political costs than benefits for them at this stage in the game.

[mattp]

I want to see some clear and intentional violations of law that result in harm to our nation as the bar for the rather extreme act of removing an elected official.

 

I understand the "neo-liberal" thing, maybe, or the idea that we might not benefit from more of the same and any talk of impeachment should not be about "payback" but should be focussed on what is right and where it might lead us, but even Fairweather admits they lied to take us to war.

 

Lying to Congress is a felony, isn't it? What do you need to see?

[Off_White]

That's an admirable position to take, but I don't think its an ideal that's ever been achieved in practice.

 

I don't think that either of us have ever let that dissuade us from arguing a position.

 

Matt, I guess I just want to see something other than a pell mell "ha ha fucker now I get to wear the boot" riot. I suspect Bush's improprieties are far more serious to the welfare of the country than blowjobgate, but the bulk of the democratic party's failure to press when they were a minority makes me doubt their suitability to pursue charges when they're the top dog. It's more about pursuit of power than justice, and it's just plain ugly no matter who's fist is in the glove.

 

I am certainly not insulted to be called an idealist.

[tvashtarkatena]

There is no doubt in my mind that Bush lied to take us into war. But...

 

First, if you look at the history of nations after a period of strife, it seems that the way to reconciliation is through amnesty. South Africa is a classic example. Nicaragua today, with Ortega having a Contra running mate, may turn out to be another.

 

Second, the Clinton era proved that impeachment proceedings can backfire politically on the proponents.

 

The voters have clearly indicated that the last thing they want is another political sideshow when there are so many pressing problems facing the country. They are sick of heavy-handed partisanship that the GOP has engaged in. Impeachment would be both.

 

Does Bush deserve impeachment? Absolutely. Should the Democrats try to impeach him? No.

[chucK]

We're in a real pile of shit right now. Sure, the Bushies put us there, but giving 'em all the boot isn't going to hoist us out. I say give 'em a chance to work with us, AND investigate them. Carrot and stick.

 

I think investigations ought to begin to examine current and ongoing practices that will affect how we can undo the damage. For example, do some examining of the hiring practices of the Bush administration in key posts in Iraq, Homeland Security, FDA etc. Investigate whether expert input is actually solicited or acted upon. We need some good people who know what they're doing, not just contributors to the GOP.

 

WE won this election because, even though Republicans love having the GOP in power, they realized that complete incompetence in government was too high a price to pay. Making revenge our biggest issue will lose all that crossover support.

 

We've got a chance here to improve our dsyfunctional government and political system. Let's not spend all of our political capital on impeachment.

 

And, finally from a purely pragmatic AND partisan point of view, we certainly need thorough investigations anyway before any impeachment process would have a chance to be successful. If investigations turn up enough dirt so that even some Republicans would support impeachment, then Bush will just resign anyway (or be a complete albatross about the GOP in 2008).

[Crux]

Fwiw, about eight months ago I received a response by mail from one of my elected representatives in regard to the attitude I'd expressed about impeachment at the time. Essentially the letter stated the following:

 

'It ain’t about impeachment, ya fukin twit -- it's about restoring the oversight role and responsiblity of Congress. "Only through effective oversight can the House and the Senate determine whether the Administration’s actions have been appropriate." Thank you very much for your well-intentioned but politically half-witted support -- Patty Murray, United States Senator.'

[JosephH]

Personally, I think Bush should be impeached and then along with Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, and Perle tried as traitors. But that isn't what the country needs. It would also take two years and the Senate would never convict them; it would be what it was for Clinton, an attempt to deliberately stain and cripple a presidency - and we can't afford that now.

[mattp]

We've got a chance here to improve our dsyfunctional government and political system. Let's not spend all of our political capital on impeachment.

 

I'm with you there. However, we've so often heard the Republicans saying they were the party of accountability when they have utterly failed to hold a single person accountable not only for lying to take us into the war, but ignoring the advice of nearly all the Pentagon war planners and bungling the war effort, mismanaging the reconstruction, and while continuing to lie about what they are doing there. (For example, is there much doubt that they are building a permanent military base in Iraq or that we continue to ignore the Geneva convention?)

 

I'd like to see the Democrats or some combination of Democrats and Republicans actually bring a greater measure of accountability to American politics and I'm sure more than a few Democrats would get caught up in the net if they did. Impeachment would only be a good idea if it was a sensible part of a larger package -- otherwise it would be viewed as nothing more than payback whether it was motivated by that or not. I'm not saying "start the proceeding in January," but I AM saying it could be part of a program of reconciliation and accountability and I would not, the day after the election, say "we should never consider it."

[Mr_Phil]

And the Democrats would have a little credibility if they clean up their act first.

[Doug]

It occurs to me that an impartial non-partisan (or better yet bi-partisan) fact finding of events leading up to the botched offensive in Iraq would be a good thing. All involved in the political process leading up to it should be held accountable, although one could argue that based on yesterday's election results many have been held accountable.

 

An impeachment right now would be revenge based and that is the last thing we need. What both major parties need right now is a better working together strategy.

[chucK]

I heard a Nancy Pelosi interview where she said the first thing they would do is to change the House rules so that the reconcilliation committee (? the one that works with the bill after it has passed the House so that it agrees with the Senate version) will be composed of members from both parties instead of being limited to the majority party's members.

 

I hope she follows through on that. It would make it much harder to sneak objectionable stuff into legislation, like the recent decommissioning of the special investigator's office to look into Iraq contracts.

 

And hopefully, in 2008 (when Dem's control the Prezidency and both houses of congress), they don't just change it back.

[foraker]

Impeachment. Very bad idea right about now.

I'd be all for investigations and fact finding and letting a lot of sunshine into a part of our government that's been shrouded far too long. Congress does indeed need to re-assert it's oversight role. They can ham-string Bush as it is and any investigations would likely bring to light enough information for people to make their own conclusions (which it seems they have anyway). No need to become more fractious as a nation in these times.

[tvashtarkatena]

And the Democrats would have a little credibility if they clean up their act first.

 

A moron weighs in with yet another unsupported sound bite.

[Peter_Puget]

Democrats are not about getting even. Democrats are about helping Americans get ahead. Democrats are prepared to lead and to govern in a bipartisan way. They will lead the most honest, the most open and the most ethical Congress in history. As far as the Whitehouse: the success of the president is always good for the country, and Democrats hope that we can work together for the American people and will do so working together with the administration and the Republicans in Congress in partnership, not in partisanship.

 

[catbirdseat]

Personally, I think Bush should be impeached and then along with Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, and Perle tried as traitors. But that isn't what the country needs. It would also take two years and the Senate would never convict them; it would be what it was for Clinton, an attempt to deliberately stain and cripple a presidency - and we can't afford that now.

The Presidency has already been stained. Crippling it would be a good thing. It would shut the bastard down. At least he couldn't do any more harm.

[lI1|1!]

somebody needs to check out that haliburton s*** that's all i'm saying

[tvashtarkatena]

somebody needs to check out that haliburton s*** that's all i'm saying

 

Agreed. There should be investigation, accountability, and reform. We need to keep the Dems from pulling the same type of crap as the GOP.

[cj001f]

Democrats are not about getting even. Democrats are about helping Americans get ahead. Democrats are prepared to lead and to govern in a bipartisan way. They will lead the most honest, the most open and the most ethical Congress in history. As far as the Whitehouse: the success of the president is always good for the country, and Democrats hope that we can work together for the American people and will do so working together with the administration and the Republicans in Congress in partnership, not in partisanship.

 

 

I was hoping for them to disband the government and usher in a libertarian paradise!

[bwrts]

I heard (maybe here on cc.com) that more money was spent on the investigation of Clinton's sexual exploits and other scandals than was spent on 911 investigation (~30million vs. ~12million)...

 

Do you think that the powers in good 'ole USA are willing to dole out that kind of cash on president shrub??

 

Edit: got distracted here at work and finally posted this prior to reading (still reading) all the good points.

Impeachment would be a waste of time/money and furthermore, it would never happen...

Edited November 8, 2006 by bwrts

[rbw1966]

It occurs to me that an impartial non-partisan (or better yet bi-partisan) fact finding of events leading up to the botched offensive in Iraq would be a good thing.

 

Already been done. A bi-partisan commission headed by Silberman.

 

What needs to be done is focus energy on getting Iraq stable and getting our soldiers out of that shithole and then leave the middle east alone. We can start pointing fingers later. I believe part of the reason Iraq is such a quagmire now is the administration has been focused more on PR rather than results.