Bolt Nazis

[korrigan]

The JG's thread got me to thinkin bout dem bolt nazis.

 

Having done Orbit last weekend which could IMO use a couple a new bolts or at least one to replace what is there and seeing the acres of climbable ground and rarely climbed ground going to lichenous waste I get's to tinkin, or is it tinkling?

 

If it weren't for the bolt nazis and the inevitability of chopping by said anita briants of the rock SCW could have a lot of good climbing. Then maybe all the spray masters wouldn't have to line up on OS and make threats of violence against gumbies who spend the day on it.

 

Take the 'lost' variation on Orbit. Having not gone that way I can only assume the reason people don't succeed on it if it's only 10a is because of dirt and a lack of bolts, the two of which go hand in hand in warshinton if ya'll haven't noticed. Or what about the upper section of things like remorse or completely unclimbed ground.

 

Sure it's great to stroke your wank about how you once did those things and they were once done back in the 70's or whatever, but the fact remains that those climbs or variations on climbs aren't done. And the fact remains that washington has very little sizable cragging to be done and SCW is one of the few offerings of such a thing. If wank stroking is what you like there's a whole world of hard unclimbed stuff waiting for you, get outa town, take a road trip, spray about it when you return.

 

Would the world really come to an end if there were some bolts up there so that the rest of us could climb? Sure we aint got the sack that you hard men have, hell some climbers don't even have a sack. But think of how you could spray about when you did it there were no bolts there and such. How cool would that be? In the meantime while you are all ballancing beer glasses on your ever growing bellies and threatening to chop cause the 'kids these days don't know nuttin" some of us could be out enjoying great rock up off the ground in a nice place.

 

I guess I just don't understand why a few people who once risked their lives on some crazy stunt get to make decisions for the rest of us. That argument was had decades ago in Colorado and the stunt masters lost. Is Colorado now some kind of lost world of suckiness because there are bolted routes everywhere? Seems to me it's actually easier to climb in areas that have added bolt routes because the decent and interesting climbs that require gear are less crowded. Just think how many annoying LA types would descend on Josh if it weren't for Williamson or whatever it is called being close by. Where would all the people from Seattle go if it weren't for the thankless and hard work of those putting up routes in Leavenworth and I90? I'll tell you where they'd go. Snow Creek Wall to climb outer space, Classic Crack, Givlers Dome, and Castle Rock. That's how it was when I learned to climb in diapers back in the days when men were men.

 

I'm all for bolts. I don't want to see everything look like a gym or crack lines retroed. Make 'em spicy, place the bolts well and distance them to be appropriate for a climber at that grade.

 

Me I'm gettin my Bosch out and headin for SCW now. Too bad ya'll are workin or you could stop me.

[fern]

And the fact remains that washington has very little sizable cragging to be done and SCW is one of the few offerings of such a thing.

 

this is complete nonsense.

[catbirdseat]

I think he means long, moderate, multipitch routes within a short distance of the road. He is right if that's what he means.

[G-spotter]

yeah, aside from wapass and darrington and index and castle rock and static and beacon and careno crag and so on, there'es hardly any moderate multipitch in WA close to a road

[catbirdseat]

yeah, aside from wapass and darrington and index and castle rock and static and beacon and careno crag and so on, there'es hardly any moderate multipitch in WA close to a road

Wapass, Beacon: Long-ass drive

Castle rock, Careno: short routes

Index: not many moderate routes

Static: too run out, because of the Bolt-Nazis

Darrington: shhhhhhhh

[slothrop]

If you really want to open up Washington rock climbing to more people, teach your friends how to climb on gear and take a scrub brush and rack to the undiscovered classics you seem to think are to be found underneath the lichen. Then "stroke your wank" about how awesome your new routes are, so people climb them.

 

If Exit 38 didn't exist, there would be fewer climbers in Seattle who only do bolted routes... thus obviating the need for Exit 38. Creating a new climbing area doesn't just satisfy demand, it creates it.

[catbirdseat]

If you really want to open up Washington rock climbing to more people, teach your friends how to climb on gear and take a scrub brush and rack to the undiscovered classics you seem to think are to be found underneath the lichen. Then "stroke your wank" about how awesome your new routes are, so people climb them.

 

If Exit 38 didn't exist, there would be fewer climbers in Seattle who only do bolted routes... thus obviating the need for Exit 38. Creating a new climbing area doesn't just satisfy demand, it creates it.

These new places exist but people aren't talking about them. Certain people are too critical about the style in which some new routes are put up. The creators put too much work into them to want to listen to the bullshit criticism, so they only tell their friends.

[slothrop]

Maybe there's too much good climbing around here for the climber population. There are climbs at Squamish and Index that get overgrown because of lack of traffic, but are still good routes. The classics get all the attention. Try White Slabs on SCW, a four-pitch 5.8 route that gets 1/10th the traffic of Orbit.

 

Ooh, Mr. Catbird, won't you tell us about your friends' new routes?

[Off_White]

Wrong Way, Korrigan

[TeleRoss]

This is maybe one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read.

[Raindawg]

I suspect that Mr. Corrigan's post is a "troll" to lure out "bolt nazis" such as myself as the reaction is predictable with such naive notions.

 

However,just in case you might be actually serious, I'll exercise CONSIDERABLE restraint with the following BRIEF comments:

 

Sure it's great to stroke your wank about how you once did those things and they were once done back in the 70's or whatever, but the fact remains that those climbs or variations on climbs aren't done.

 

They don't have to be done if no one is up for it. Leave it be until you're capable. Don't dumb it down to meet your standards.

 

And the fact remains that washington has very little sizable cragging to be done and SCW is one of the few offerings of such a thing. If wank stroking is what you like there's a whole world of hard unclimbed stuff waiting for you, get outa town, take a road trip, spray about it when you return.

 

How about YOU taking a road trip outta town to other places that have already been defiled and more to your liking.

 

Would the world really come to an end if there were some bolts up there so that the rest of us could climb?

 

It's a special place, don't ruin it. Keep it clean, keep it trad. There are numerous people who will not stand for sport-bolting at Snow Creek Wall. Such "creations" will predictably and joyously suffer the same fate as Dan's Dreadful Direct on Castle Rock. Unfamiliar with that? (some of the same arguments..."the route wasn't being climbed", "too dangerous", so we'll "fix it" so it can be enjoyed by the masses, etc. ...wah, wah, wah!)

 

As Mr. Slothrop noted, there are lots of other good trad routes on Snow Creek Wall that see only a fraction of the traffic of those two great magnets: Orbit and Outer Space. Get your guide book out and explore the challenge and beauty of that great place.

 

P.S. Note to moderators. I didn't invite or "hijack" this one.

[rat]

Me I'm gettin my Bosch out and headin for SCW now. Too bad ya'll are workin or you could stop me.

 

provided you're serious, this remark is all anyone needs to prove your ignorance. do you even know why?

 

learn to climb dirt or move to "the lost world of suckiness".

[ScottP]

These new places exist but people aren't talking about them. Certain people are too critical about the style in which some new routes are put up. The creators put too much work into them to want to listen to the bullshit criticism, so they only tell their friends.

e.g.

[G-spotter]

[pope]

The JG's thread got me to thinkin bout dem bolt nazis.

Are you talking about the folks who stick 'em where they don't belong...to heck with what everybody else thinks? Like the clowns who recently "improved" Centerfold?

 

 

Sure it's great to stroke your wank about how you once did those things and they were once done back in the 70's or whatever, but the fact remains that those climbs or variations on climbs aren't done.

Cowboy up and do 'em. That might resolve the next issue that you bring up:

 

And the fact remains that washington has very little sizable cragging to be done...

Huh? Didn't you just comment about how so many routes aren't getting done? Doesn't sound like you need more routes. Just more ability and vision.

 

 

 

Is Colorado now some kind of lost world of suckiness because there are bolted routes everywhere?

A lot of people noticed that.

 

 

Just think how many annoying LA types would descend on Josh if it weren't for Williamson or whatever it is called being close by.

Without sport cliffs, most of the "annoying LA types" wouldn't have anything to do with climbing, as has been noted previously.

[Mos_Chillin]

I actually think it is a good troll, although lacking the sexual barbs to bring the girls in.

[MisterMo]

Snort

 

Betcher goin fishin' all of the time

Baby goin fishin' too

Betcher life your sweet wife

Will catch more fish than you

Many fish bites if you got good bait

Here's a little tip that I would like to relate

Many fish bites if you got good bait

I'm a goin fishin

Mama's goin fishin

And my baby's goin fishin too

 

Cook em in a pot baby cook em in a pan

Honey cook em til they're nice and brown

Make a batch of buttermilk ho cakes mama

And chew them things baby chomp em on down

Singin many fish bite if you got good bait

Here's a little tip I would like to relate

Many fish bites if you got good bait

I'm a goin fishin

Mama's goin fishin

And my baby's goin fishin too

[catbirdseat]

Me I'm gettin my Bosch out and headin for SCW now. Too bad ya'll are workin or you could stop me.

 

provided you're serious, this remark is all anyone needs to prove your ignorance. do you even know why?

 

learn to climb dirt or move to "the lost world of suckiness".

Actually this is good advice. It is possible to become confortable with dirt and mank. It's all a state of mind.

[kevbone]

Dude, as long as you’re touching unclimbed rock. The sky is open for your interpretation. This is coming from someone who has put up and been a part of about 50 routes, mostly mixed climbing. The trick here is to not bolt cracks. The real sticky part is making sure the gear is good. I know some who say if you can get “any” gear in, its gear. Where other definition of gear is “would it hold a ten foot fall”? If not then its not gear. So then you have to make a decision. Bolt or no bolt. Either way if you are first accentionist and do try your darnest to do it right. Then everybody else can fuck off. If you don’t like it, go climb something else. Putting up a route is like a piece of art. You do it how you see fit! Not everybody likes others artwork. I know some will disagree. However; we as climbers have to respect the first accentionists! We have to respect our forefathers, respect the people who came before us. This would include sport routes.

I am tired of the old argument. Climbers wanting to retro a scary runout climb. and complain about it “its scary and hard and you may get hurt. And the Crack heads state “if you don’t like it go climb something else.” Well I through that shit right back at you. If you don’t like how I bolted “my route, my art work” when I was the first person to clean, then you can go climbe elsewhere! Just my thoughts

Edited October 6, 2006 by kevbone

[jhamaker]

Oh, I thought this thread was about Bolting Nazis.

 

I compare bolting of previously climbed routes with, say, putting a highway ontop of the Quinault/Elwa trail in the Olympics. Sure it makes it easier and safer for thousands of people to get through the heart of the Olympics, but the experience is not the same - AND YOU CAN NEVER GO BACK.

 

Had bolters been more discreat and less vigorous with bolting operations, the "bolting in the wilderness" controversy (and ban) would have been delayed for years.

 

I've noticed that guidebooks these days tend to spell out in black and white such things as rappel lenths (wich you can measure w/ your rope on the way up) and the amount of protection (PG/R/X for example). With this beta in hand climbers can pick thier comfort level with out having to bring every climb down to that level.

[Farrgo]

I'm all for bolts. I don't want to see everything look like a gym or crack lines retroed. Make 'em spicy, place the bolts well and distance them to be appropriate for a climber at that grade.

 

Mabey this is the 5.10 climber's 5.8? There are many climbs which I could do, but probably could not do safely as they have difficult protection and if I am climbing at my absolute limit, putting in good pro is often neglected. Here's one for you, climb at your level on ground which is below your level when its hard to protect and climb harder when its easier to protect.

 

Kevbone, simply being the first ascensionist doesn't place you beyond blame. If you don't believe me look at the recent Erie bitchfest or Infinite Bliss thread (oh ya I forgot).

[Blake]

part of the argument comes down to this: for bolted or partly-bolted pitches, does the first ascensionist have any kinda moral/social/nice-guy responsibility to bolt it safely and at good stances? Or, because they probably eyed/cleaned/equipped the route themself, should they just put in bolts exactly where (and not where) they want to, with thought only given to enabling their FA of the climb.

[catbirdseat]

The answer is emphatically, yes. I think most FA's want people to climb their lines.

[kevbone]

Kevbone, simply being the first ascensionist doesn't place you beyond blame. ).

 

I agree you may be blamed for what ever. But it does give you the right to tell the folks blaming you to fuck off and go climb something else.

[chucK]

If you want more routes to climb at Snow Creek Wall, I guess you could try to find an unclimbed line and go for it. However, looking at the guidebooks, it looks like there's not much unclimbed terrain up there.

 

Thus, I'd suggest scrubbing some long forgotten classic and and replacing any the existing bolts with new fat ones. I doubt that would upset very many people.

 

It was done with the second pitch of RPM and on Mary Jane Dihedral. I'd think a good candidate for refurbishment would be the 3rd pitch of RPM. Also, it might be cool if someone scrubbed and replaced bolts on those crazy runout chickenhead pitches to the right of Outer Space.

 

Anybody got any other good refurbishment projects for Korrigan?

 

Oh yeah, and you might reconsider the Bosch idea since it's probably illegal up there at SCW.