pdk Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 It is my understanding that there are just a few moves of 10a/b on the entire route. The difference between the number of people who get scetched out on 11 vs 10a/b is huge. Im confused by what this means. Is your argument that it is overbolted for the grade or that it is bolted at all? Since it sounds like neither one of us has ever climbed it (and maybe neither of us is in a position to really judge it), maybe we should both climb it this summer and reconvene here afterwards. I'm perfectly willing to change my position if conditions warrant it.
Off_White Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 On the plus side, this route now draws most of the online armchair complaints, and we don't have to put up with constant whinging about Condorphamine Addiction anymore.
pdk Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 What route is that? I bet i could take a strong position one way or the other on it.....
Peter_Puget Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 The “elephant in the room” – Why would anyone pass by Fee Demo Wall in order to climb Infinite Bliss?
Bug Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 It is my understanding that there are just a few moves of 10a/b on the entire route. The difference between the number of people who get scetched out on 11 vs 10a/b is huge. Im confused by what this means. Is your argument that it is overbolted for the grade or that it is bolted at all? Since it sounds like neither one of us has ever climbed it (and maybe neither of us is in a position to really judge it), maybe we should both climb it this summer and reconvene here afterwards. I'm perfectly willing to change my position if conditions warrant it. My point is that comparing it to a 5.11 route to somehow justify bolting it is not accurate. I am sure it is great fun, nay, super fun. In my days of putting up routes we assessed the commitment value of a route given its location, difficulty, setting etc. While I understand the arguements in favor of this route, it sets a dangerous precedent for wilderness ethics that I would not want to be a part of supporting. I have placed bolts very sparingly in the wilderness when linking otherwise unlinked trad lines. These routes are still being done and are considered "Sporty" but "adequately" protected. The most bolts I have placed on any one pitch was two. I made good use of tricams, stacked stoppers, opposition, etc to avoid bolts in the wilderness wherever possible. From what I have heard, the decision was made to just make IB accessible to the masses and it ignores many natural placement oportunities. So yes, let's climb it and post a TR. Who wouldn't want to read that?.
JosephH Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 p23 - 5.9 / 90' / 14 bolts Pretty much sums it all up in a nutshell.
kevbone Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 If I climb it I'll be carrying a crowbar. Bullshit.
kevbone Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 It is my understanding that there are just a few moves of 10a/b on the entire route. The difference between the number of people who get scetched out on 11 vs 10a/b is huge. Im confused by what this means. Is your argument that it is overbolted for the grade or that it is bolted at all? Since it sounds like neither one of us has ever climbed it (and maybe neither of us is in a position to really judge it), maybe we should both climb it this summer and reconvene here afterwards. I'm perfectly willing to change my position if conditions warrant it. My point is that comparing it to a 5.11 route to somehow justify bolting it is not accurate. I am sure it is great fun, nay, super fun. In my days of putting up routes we assessed the commitment value of a route given its location, difficulty, setting etc. While I understand the arguements in favor of this route, it sets a dangerous precedent for wilderness ethics that I would not want to be a part of supporting. I have placed bolts very sparingly in the wilderness when linking otherwise unlinked trad lines. These routes are still being done and are considered "Sporty" but "adequately" protected. The most bolts I have placed on any one pitch was two. I made good use of tricams, stacked stoppers, opposition, etc to avoid bolts in the wilderness wherever possible. From what I have heard, the decision was made to just make IB accessible to the masses and it ignores many natural placement oportunities. So yes, let's climb it and post a TR. Who wouldn't want to read that?. For god’s sake please go climb this climb. Then you would all have a valid reason to comment on it.
chris Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 Hey Fox, I believe that Preiss is actually referring to me, because I have said here on cc.com that he took the easiest line up the face - and the most logical if one was going to follow obvious crack and ledge systems to climb. By calling it the easiest line, I certainly thought I was making a relative comparison, not implying that his line was "easy". You know what I mean. And it was written to reference Preiss' claims that IB was a variation of his climb - by my definition (more than 50% of the new route covers new terrain) - IB is not a variation. Please ask Mr. Preiss to contact me directly. Not to try to convince him that IB is fine where it is, but to get more information about his line so that I can climb it this fall. Thanks! Chris P.S. Yep, and while we're at, we should go over and chop the bolted climbs on the right side of the Eiger's North Face. After all, the North Face was first climbed without bolts almost 75 years ago! And we should wipe off Time Wave Zero down in El Portrero - doesn't The Wildest Ride in the Park reach the same summit without bolts? Why clip the bolts on Prime Rib (Goat Wall, Mazama) when you could get an FA up the choss filled gully instead? Is my sarcasm showing? Go climb something instead of reading this shite!
chris Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 p23 - 5.9 / 90' / 14 bolts Pretty much sums it all up in a nutshell. Interesting. My notes from climbing the route confirmed the topo's reported 7 bolts on the 23rd pitch. What were you clim - oh, wait, that's right. You won't go climb it. Can we please pick something else to be asses about.
chris Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 Hey Pete- It would be great to check out the Fee Demo Wall this fall! Chris
JosephH Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 Interesting. My notes from climbing the route confirmed the topo's reported 7 bolts on the 23rd pitch. Just pulling from Dabrowski's topo... No interest in climbing it. Bolted bowling alley of what, a pitch or two of interesting climbing if that.
Good2Go Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 My pet peeve is those Baby on Board stickers. What the fuck are they trying to tell us, be more careful because they've got a baby? I'd prefer that you tough guys go out and chop all of those rather than IB, but whatever trips your trigger.
chris Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 Joe- I'm going to pm you about this, again. Can we find something to agree about, like the cool climbing at Beacon?
Edlinger Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 Here is the commandment from on high. If you've ever climbed Infinite Bliss, don't tell anyone that you did so (ever again). Do not dare attempt to write it on any kind of climbing resume'. Strike the name, route, bolts, and all records from your memory banks. If you and I are casually climbing together and you try to brag about your weekend on Infinite Bliss to me, I will rebuke you harshly. If you climb it in the future, the climbing Gods will put a hex on your climbing. I'm so tired of this sh@# that this summer I will put up a route to the immediate left. The name I'll give my route will make you never mention the name "Infinite Bliss" again. Sure the route will take a few years to clean up but it will eventually be worth it.
G-spotter Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 If you climb it in the future, the climbing Gods will put a hex on your climbing. What size hex, and wired or on Spectra?
Raindawg Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 As reported in Rock and Ice: "Leland Windham and Steve Martin spent the summers of 2001 and 2002 working their way onto the route from the sides via ledge systems, rappelling the route and placing bolts with a power drill. What they didn’t know was that their route was in the Alpine Lakes Wilderness Area, in which, as in all designated wilderness, motorized equipment of any kind is prohibited. Windham and Martin’s mistake was born from an inaccurate map. The two had researched their route using a USGS topographic quad, which did not reflect Mount Garfield’s acquisition into the wilderness area in 1981. The Forest Service was not very forgiving—its maps show the correct boundaries. The alpine rap-bolting "route"-setters made a "mistake" with their outdated maps. Now they should do the decent thing and fix their "mistake": They themselves should remove the route.
Choada_Boy Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 Why don't you remove this terrible desecration from the face of the Earth? You must have some sweet tools for busting into graves, crypts, tombs, coffins, and the like. I'm sure they'd work for removing bolts as well.
kevbone Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 As reported in Rock and Ice: "Leland Windham and Steve Martin spent the summers of 2001 and 2002 working their way onto the route from the sides via ledge systems, rappelling the route and placing bolts with a power drill. What they didn’t know was that their route was in the Alpine Lakes Wilderness Area, in which, as in all designated wilderness, motorized equipment of any kind is prohibited. Windham and Martin’s mistake was born from an inaccurate map. The two had researched their route using a USGS topographic quad, which did not reflect Mount Garfield’s acquisition into the wilderness area in 1981. The Forest Service was not very forgiving—its maps show the correct boundaries. The alpine rap-bolting "route"-setters made a "mistake" with their outdated maps. Now they should do the decent thing and fix their "mistake": They themselves should remove the route. Whew.....thank god I climbed it already. Super fun route….
ivan Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 all threads related to infinte bitching should be connected to the pictures of housecats thread, w/ the understanding that one more posting about IB means the kitties have to take it in the ass!
Raindawg Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 Why don't you remove this terrible desecration from the face of the Earth? You must have some sweet tools for busting into graves, crypts, tombs, coffins, and the like. I'm sure they'd work for removing bolts as well. Hey sprayer: your personal attack on me is not a contribution to the topic...in fact, the topic is just an excuse for you to spray on someone you despise. By the way, none of the tools I use for "busting into graves, crypts, tombs, coffins, and the like" would be appropriate for erasing bolts. But here are some good tips, including appropriate tools and materials: Bolt Chopping Instructions Don't forget to read the introduction.
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