Shoulder problem survey

[layton]

yeah, i know i'm studying this stuff in school.

but regardless of that, i'm interested for those of you with or have had various shoulder issue: What have you been doing that works or seems to be working.

 

Thanks in advance,

Mike

[AlpineK]

My left (dominant) shoulder has been bugging me for over a year. More or less a low grade pain. I've been trying to either ignore it or do some exercises with rubber bands to build up some of the small muscles in the area. It isn't getting worse, but it isn't getting better.

 

I'll kick the ass of the first office worker who tells me I need to rest it; that isn't an option.

[iluka]

I hurt my shoulder last year while tele skiing... fell in a turn, skis downhill, left arm outstretched uphill. Never got an MRI or other work-up for a formal diagnosis but I suspect it was a minor injury to the rotator cuff... supraspinatus tendon possibly... or a injury to the labrum

 

I laid off it for a bit then got in the gym and did a lot of cable exercises focused on the shoulder including internal and external rotation, abduction and extension and flexion about the joint and slowly the injury has healed. All basically focused on strengthening the muscles that contribute to the rotator cuff. No more pain, strength feels good and when I had a similar fall this spring, no reinjury.

[daveLok]

I tore my labrum on the left shoulder few years back when I fell skiing. I ignored it for some time, until it became worse and my shoulder started popping out whenever I overextended it. This happened 4-5 times and I ended up going for a surgery. It's been more than two years since the surgery. I would say i have most of my strength back and probably 85% of the range of movement.

 

Unfortunately i had another accident few weeks back and ended up tearing the rotator cuff on my right shoulder. This time I am going take it easy for a while.

[billcoe]

Wheres Joseph when you need him?

[Rafael_H]

I started to have shoulder problems in 2003 which gradually became quite painful, with limited motion range. Interestingly it never interfered with climbing vertical and somewhat overanging routes, although I think it was only a matter of time to develop something debilitating. Rubber band did not help, even done regularly for months.

But, recently I started doing regular strength training, including shoulder dumbell exercises, in supersets with other upper body, and after two months I suddenly noticed that the pain was gone, and the full range of motion is back (yeah!!!). With everything else being the same, the obvious difference was made by shoulder strengthening, note - NOT injury prevention-type, but full on strengthening routine.

[layton]

cool, thanks

[willstrickland]

Bouldering in about '99 or 2000, foothold breaks and all weight comes onto right shoulder. Hurt for a week or so, and residual pain in certain positions ever since then. Tried the bands exercises for rotator, didn't help.

 

Never got a proper diagnosis. The pain is right between the anterior and medial delt near the head of the arm bone. Some pain or discomfort when levered (i.e. hand back, head of arm bone levers forward). A few years ago started doing military press on a machine and it helped alot. Almost no pain, and rare when climbing except when I stop doing the press workouts for a few months.

[layton]

Will, two things i should mention to you.

1.the shoulder press is one of the all time worst exercises/positions you could possibly put your shoulder in, especially when injured. but shit if it works, then there's always an outlyer i guess!

 

2.the deltoid is the most common location (elbow pain 2nd) for referred pain from the shoulder. i.e. the pain may be elsewhere.

 

not that either of those things are gonna help, but they are important in your case nonetheless.

 

p.s. i'm not diagnosing you, treating you, or telling you any sort of treatment. just facts to know.

[Knottygirl]

I dislocated and fractured my left shoulder when I was younger and it used to stick sometimes and sit higher then the right shoulder, until this Shaman from Alaska did Reiki on it...now I never feel any pain in it.

[chelle]

I've had lots of problems with my shoulders in the past 4-5 years. Rotator cuff problems and very tight subscapularis muscles. Massage (from the right practitioner) helped the best with my rotator cuff injury. $750 (just my copay portion) of PT just made the problem worse.

 

Then a 1.5 years ago I started having a lot of nerve pain in my arms and hands, and was losing strength and coordination. I got worked up for what might be going on. Diagnosis was bilateral thoracic outlet syndrome, which is essentially a neurovascular impingement (worse on the left than right for me). I was thankful it wasn't MS. Massage works, but not as well. Yoga helps a lot and has let me continue riding my bike. I was told that both biking and climbing were a bad idea. I can't really rock climb anymore because I know I will be in very bad pain for about 3-4 weeks after an afternoon of climbing at the crags. Kind of a bummer, but I have better insurance now so may check out surgery later this year.

 

Maybe I should check out this reiki thing.

[layton]

I also have bilateral thoracic outlet syndrome.

Two causes (usually)

1. cervical rib

-remove said rib

2. tight scalenes, pecs

-stretch said muscles

 

massage with pin and strech and trigger point therapy on key muscles is key in solving the shoulder problem.

stregnthening isn't the key in my book. re-wiring your shoulder's firing patter is. get those scapula stabilized, upper traps inhibited, lower traps activated, serratus anterior activated, pecs, subscap, stretched....blah blah blah. Most climbers I seriously doubt have any weak shoulder muscles. over active ones though. and as for labrum...you can sometimes calm the shoulder down enough to keep the humerus from grinding it, but it's a common surgery. impingment is more easily solved (see above) as is frozen shoulder. Supraspinatus and biceps tears are manageable, unles a big tear, then once again surgery.

 

come see me when I get my license. I'll help y'all get better. I'm specializing in shoulders, knees, feet, wrist/hands, and elbows....besides the spine.

[JosephH]

I hurt my left shoulder while working on an overhanging .12a with a big dyno for six months in '76 and made the ridiculous mistake of continually not letting of the hand I was launching off of when I missed the dyno - sort of like not letting go of the rope after falling while water skiing - dumb. It eventually tore up my shoulder to the point I had to stop climbing for six months to let it heal.

 

Roll forward 25 intervening years with no problem and I invadvertantly managed to recreate the same dyno in the gym with the same results - hurt it again the same way. So I rested it a couple of weeks and went about my business. Then two years ago I ramped things up to where I was doing about six miles of running, 90 lengths of swimming, yoga, and a shit load of pitches about three or four days a week - way too much and the result was to more or less permanently inflame my shoulder. I finally went to Dr. Brad Butler in Beaverton who is a great ortho guy and he got some crystal clear x-rays and a fair MRI.

 

I had hoped he would find I had a torn rotator cuff or something he could fix, but in the end he said it was more a matter of mileage and just plain worn out. In fact, he said he's done shoulder replacements on a some folks with shoulders that looked the same as mine and other folks who eat advil and they get by just fine. He did say he could "clean it up and smooth it out" for me, but it would probably be better to just not go in unless it was absolutely necessary. Then again, I later ran into a Home Depot employee who had him clean her's out and she said it was by all means worth doing.

 

For treatment he just had me take four advils, three times a day for about six weeks to kill the inflamation and rest it. So I'm just coming off of six months of doing nothing - no running, no swimming, no nothing which sucked. As of last week I'm slowly easing back on to it all out at Beacon and if it goes good I'll hit the Valley in the fall; if it doesn't I'll be having Butler clean it out this coming winter. Have to wait and see in general. But like he said - in the end it's mostly a matter of mileage - I only have so much left and I should use it wisely. The price I pay for doing almost nothing but overhangs and roofs early in my climbing career I guess. But it does put me in a quandry relative to swimming which is my first love. Anyway, that's my little shoulder epic...

 

[ Edit: A study was just released in the past week saying that exactly the dose of advil I was taking (4 - 3x / day) causes the same cardiac issues as Viox and similar new NSAIDs. They said the only one that didn't was Aleve and that's what I've switched to now. ]

Edited June 22, 2006 by JosephH

[ken4ord]

When I first moved to Seattle I started having problem with my shoulders, mainly because I was unemployed and climbing a lot, essentially over use. I was having a hard time raising my arms above my head.

I saw a doctor and was reccomended to give it a rest and do the elastice band exercises. I started with the elastic bands, and light dumbell to build up the smaller muscles. It didn't really have positive effect until I found a job.

[JayB]

Hurt my right shoulder in March when I was kayaking. Dropped over a pourover, the boat rolled to the right, and I extended my arm back and to the right to brace. The water forced the hull to roll even further rightward, which extended my right arm even further up and back, and I could feel a bit of pain in that shoulder, just in front of where the clavicle joins the shoulder joint.

 

I have done nothing to treat the shoulder, and continued normal workouts. If anyone has a link to some at-home PT I could do that might be helpful, that would be great.

[PLC]

I've had chronic pain in both shoulders for as long as I can remember. My shoulders crack continually throughout the day from normal movement. I can also pop both shoulders in and out of joint, which is fun for grossing people out...

 

I went to several doctors who had no good ideas, and went to a couple chiropractors, who also didn't help any. Then, I went to the Shoulder and Elbow clinic at the UW and they diagnosed me with cervical ribs and thoracic outlet syndrome (resulting from my two extra ribs).

 

They said there were two options: surgery or physical therapy. I opted for PT, and as long as I do my PT exercises every day, I'm pretty much pain free. If I skip on the exercises for a couple days and/or pull an all-nighter at work, the pain will return.

[layton]

did your hands/arms go numb a lot?

[fern]

missed this thread before.

 

I am not sure the root cause of my shoulder problem - possibly a hard fall on ice after catching an edge skiing, compounded with some construction work. It got progressively more painful so that even using that arm to turn the steering wheel hurt, and I would pretty much always get numb hands when sleeping. I did a few months of PT, maybe 6 sessions with the electric and sonic whatsits and some elastic band exercises, but at the same time I was very consciously resting it, never lifting my arms above parallel etc. and the pain did subside mostly, but would return sometimes. I never got it really diagnosed, but the PT said something about the pectoral tendon.

 

But like Rafael and Will, when I got into genuine strength training (as opposed to PT type elastic band stuff) I gained functional range of motion and experience way less pain or nighttime numbness, though I still have to be careful with certain things, especially dynamic movements. Exercises that seem to be good for my shoulder are handstand and handstand pushups, overhead squats (both 1 arm with dumbells and regular 2 arm), kipping pullups (crossfit style), ring dips (NOT bar dips or bench dips!), turkish getups.

 

I noticed this spring when I stopped my regular strength and fitness training and was just climbing for a few months that I lost flexibility, my shoulder felt more 'twingy', and I would get numb hands again.

[skykilo]

I took a good fall while skinning up a steep slope three years ago. Jerked my right shoulder real hard while stopping and it sure did hurt.

 

Since then, I'm highly prone to aggravate it when I play basketball, especially rebounding and dunking. Quick, jerky motions are bad.

 

It seems to do a lot better when I do military presses and other shoulder workouts.

 

Climbing doesn't bother it, unless I try to pull on it with my arm above and behind my head. Falling on it in a bad way can really tweak it, though.

[olyclimber]

Does it especially hurt when you do a double-clutch behind the back dunk jumping from the free throw line Sky? I know it does for me.

[Cobra_Commander]

and I would assume raising the roof

[PLC]

"did your hands/arms go numb a lot?"

 

Yes. My hands would go numb starting at the pinky and working in... My arms will go numb if I sit or lay down in the wrong position, and my arms are usually "asleep" when I wake up in the morning.

 

The funniest thing is that my arm will occassionally spaz-out and flop around for a second or two when I'm using the mouse too much at work. Amusing for co-workers.

[layton]

I too have TOS, but not b/c of a cervical rib.

I do have an extra pair of lumbar ribs...helps pad the ground falls a bit more.

[robert]

"did your hands/arms go numb a lot?"

 

Yes. My hands would go numb starting at the pinky and working in... My arms will go numb if I sit or lay down in the wrong position, and my arms are usually "asleep" when I wake up in the morning.

 

I have this happen too. My doc said it was from the ulner nerve moving from its proper position to the inside of my elbow. The feeling comes back as soon as I straighten my arms. My shoulder problem mean that I have to sleep on my back, so when I wake up my arms are often bent and asleep.

 

My shoulder problem was helped greatly by surgery to remove hundreds of little bits of cartilage. I think that years of their presence did some damage to the labrum or something because while they are gone the pain is not 100 percent gone. I have found the rubber band exercises are the most helpful. There is virtually no motion involved, so nothing to irritate whatever it is that gets irritated when I use my arm over my head.

[ClimbingGirl33]

I get to test my gimp shoulder out tomorrow after a month of playing with soup cans, rubber bands, pillows and light weights. Yes, I've been in PT for a scapular imbalance and a impinged bicep tendon.

 

Wish me luck.