mattp Posted August 24, 2005 Author Share Posted August 24, 2005 Fairweather, I very much appreciate the fact that you are in many ways a lone warrior around here, and I not only enjoy sparring with you but I actually think I've learned a thing or two from you. I DO find it sad, however, that you protect your hidden identity while personally attacking others, including me. I will withdraw this statement the minute you start posting under your real name or providing links to your real identity in your user profile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Post deleted by Fairweather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 ....unlike those anonymous MODERATORS, minx, off white, Peter Puget...the list goes on. Focussing on someone's anonymity is just a weak left jab when you can't rebut their arguments with a solid right. Since when have I been unwilling to rebut someone's arguments, Dru? Spewing B.S. and diverting the subject like trying to rebut my argument here with an attack on "moderators" is for sure a sign of weakness. You've had offwhite celebrate the brilliance of your dazzling spray, and I'm not questionning that recognition which you very much deserve -- but don't push it. Apparently you need a little refresher: Attacking the Person (argumentum ad hominem) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Definition: The person presenting an argument is attacked instead of the argument itself. This takes many forms. For example, the person's character, nationality or religion may be attacked. Alternatively, it may be pointed out that a person stands to gain from a favourable outcome. Or, finally, a person may be attacked by association, or by the company he keeps. There are three major forms of Attacking the Person: (1) ad hominem (abusive): instead of attacking an assertion, the argument attacks the person who made the assertion. (2) ad hominem (circumstantial): instead of attacking an assertion the author points to the relationship between the person making the assertion and the person's circumstances. (3) ad hominem (tu quoque): this form of attack on the person notes that a person does not practise what he preaches. Examples: (i) You may argue that God doesn't exist, but you are just following a fad. (ad hominem abusive) (ii) We should discount what Premier Klein says about taxation because he won't be hurt by the increase. (ad hominem circumstantial) (iii) We should disregard Share B.C.'s argument because they are being funded by the logging industry. (ad hominem circumstantial) (iv) You say I shouldn't drink, but you haven't been sober for more than a year. (ad hominem tu quoque) Proof: Identify the attack and show that the character or circumstances of the person has nothing to do with the truth or falsity of the proposition being defended. 2) and 3) are the relevant issues here. You claim that anonymity somehow makes a person untrustworthy. Bullshit because ALL information on the internet is inherently untrustworthy. The value of unknown avatars is that you cannot discount their arguments ad homionem so it forces you to examine the content of what they say. The only relevance is the content of posts and since you have nothing to go on with respect to content, because you keep recycling the same stale arguments thast your opponents do, you ask for identity so you can choose to reject a person's ethical argument ad hominem. Lets not forget this discussion is about ethics and anonymity is just a sideshow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted August 24, 2005 Author Share Posted August 24, 2005 Thanks for the compliment, Dred. In this case, I am actually stirring the "garbage" that you may have to wade through, but I hope that my point is coming through. Again: There is nothing wrong with posting anonymously. It is part of the whole setup here. But as off white put it: there is a fundamental difference between anonymous posturing and saying "this is what I think." err, dru... wtf? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted August 24, 2005 Author Share Posted August 24, 2005 Fairweather, re-read my original post to this thread: Most avatars on cc.com are anonymous. The user name gives no hint of who the poster actually is, and you get no real contact information or identity if you check the user profile. Most posters here seem to think that is a good thing, allowing fun and freedom of expression. On balance that may be so. I don't know. In a thread today, one guy denied that he was not trying to conceal his identity in failing to provide his identification information in his user profile or in his screen name. Others have made similar arguments in past discussions of this topic and, when pressed, they sometimes say "OK - my name is Mr. Smith -- are you happy now" but then they resume posting anonymously knowing that nobody reading their posts except the few who read that thread on that particular day or those who spend all day every day on this site know who they actually are. I'm not arguing for a change in cc.com policy. This site is built around the anonymous avatar. Just don't pretend you are being all up front and taking responsibility for what you are saying when you are not. I believe the incident you are referring to took place two years or more ago. I agree that your anonymity may be "useful" and, as I've said, your ability to post anonymously may in fact add to the character or content of this site. However, where you engage in personal attack, I find it at least somewhat hypocritical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 I have never gone personal with someone who didn't do so first with me. You included, sport. Maybe your skin is just too thin for this game. Once again, Matt, you take an olive branch and crush it beneath you heel. Post above deleted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Not sure if this is related but I'd like to change my avatar from its current hate/chest beater label magnet status to my real name (not that it would help anything )... is this an option? If not when we switch to the new provider will it be an option then? Or am I forced to just register a new avatar? With that said anonymous avatars are fine with me... it's the internet for heaven's sake... anonymous or not who really gives a shit beyond us losers who waste away the hours waiting for page tops and another chance to flame someone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted August 24, 2005 Author Share Posted August 24, 2005 If there was an olive branch in your post, Fairweather, please accept my apologies for missing it. Care to repost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Not sure if this is related but I'd like to change my avatar from its current hate/chest beater label magnet status to my real name (not that it would help anything )... is this an option? If not when we switch to the new provider will it be an option then? Or am I forced to just register a new avatar? With that said anonymous avatars are fine with me... it's the internet for heaven's sake... anonymous or not who really gives a shit beyond us losers who waste away the hours waiting for page tops and another chance to flame someone? Instead of changing your name, how about changing your attitude and giving people a reason to like you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 I'd have to say that some of the seeds of this thread were sown on a two foot wide ledge about five pitches up Total Soul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra_Commander Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 I'd have to say that some of the seeds of this thread were sown on a two foot wide ledge about five pitches up Total Soul. aahh, what a momentous day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 I love and accept all of you for who you are, even the most sneaky trolls and most outspoken dumbasses. However, that doesn't mean I like you (even if you're really cute). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Many, myself included, choose to use their real names or some permutation therof. Others, like halloween party guests, masquerade in costume. Doubtless, they have various reasons for remaining hidden. Both sets can inform and entertain, both can lie, attack, and spray. I think neither is inherently more reliable than the other. By watching the posters over time, regardless of their avatars, you can decide whom you will trust and whom to ignore . ps. NOLSe, change your personal info any time of the day or night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olyclimber Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Others, like halloween party guests, masquerade in costume. Doubtless, they have various reasons for remaining hidden. Both sets can inform and entertain, both can lie, attack, and spray. I think neither is inherently more reliable than the other. By watching the posters over time, regardless of their avatars, you can decide whom you will trust and whom to ignore . ps. NOLSe, change your personal info any time of the day or night. Thats what I was gonna say next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyjizzy Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 It is sad that this is really all about Ben and Mattp. Instead of getting mad and screaming, yelling, and calling names, Mattp has to resort to this mundane BS th wear Ben (and all of us) into submission. Don't you ever get tired of talking stupid-ass shit to death? What difference does it make? Maybe people want to remain anonymous because they feel that many of the people here are twisted sick fuckers, who only became lawyers or tree surgeons thru correspondancce school while in prison. While I do not know the personnel history of some of the major players here, that is a posibility. Then when Dru brings up the moderators, some people feel the need to attack poor Dru. The fact is that Dru pointed out the hypocracy of your argument viv a vis the moderators. Also, don't you have an unlisted home phone number? Why don't you list that, your social security number, and your home address under your avatar? It is because transparency is not black and white, but gradational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mec Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 is olyclimber really yoda? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 I think it doesn't matter what name you go under on the internet. If you use an avatar long enough your own style comes out. Look at bwrts/shitacowski; sure enough after ben started using bwrts on a regular basis the dumb little pollak inside himself couldn't help but surface. I bet if Brian/Fairweather changed his title he'd still be a shrill right wing piece of shit. I think we all act differently based on the medium we use to communicate. In the case of the internet I don't think it's the best place to have any kind of serious debate over anything. It might be a good place to organize a meeting where something serious gets debated, but online everybody becomes charactors of themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Is Archenemy really a crusader for flat feet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Did I put my foot in my mouth again? Why is this under the climber's board? Has this enhanced anyone's climbing knowledge? If moderators were not directly involved in this discussion would it be considered spray? Just curious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Did I put my foot in my mouth again? Why is this under the climber's board? Has this enhanced anyone's climbing knowledge? If moderators were not directly involved in this discussion would it be considered spray? Just curious... yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted August 24, 2005 Author Share Posted August 24, 2005 JZ, I have said that I realize that anonymous posting is the “norm” on this website, and I am not arguing that it is necessarily improper – only that some misuse their anonymous status. Several here have replied along the lines of: hey wait a minute, mattp, anonymous posting is fun. I agree. It has brought a lot of fun and liveliness to this website. Where you argue that people are not anonymous if you can play jr. detective for a year and eventually figure out who they are, I disagree. Where you argue that I cannot complain that some people abuse their anonymous status as long as some of the moderators remain anonymous, I disagree. Just say it: you like stirring the pot but would prefer not to use your real name and you don’t have to. You're a fairly tough guy, and I don't think this will result in your having been beaten into submission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 CJZ, I'd be willing to bet that most posters here in fact DO NOT know who you are, or who brts, Pope, Dwayner, PP, Rumr, Archenemy, Capt. Caveman, etc. are. Further, I bet MANY regular posters, including some who feel they are "insiders" here, wonder about the identities of most if not all of these individuals. It isn't a legalistic splitting of hairs: there is a fundamental difference between providing your identity or not -- offwhite's self-examination notwithstanding. I agree with offwhite that there are a lot of different colors in the rainbow, and everybody has different reasons for concealing their identity but at least four of the six posters you named have gotten extremely upset whenever anybody brought their real name into a thread. Paradoxically, some of them and several other individuals who conceal their identity engage in personal attacks using their target's real name as a tactic for intimidation. Anonymity is a big part of the charm of cc.com, and indeed it is part of the fun around here, but I believe that some posters abuse it. OK matt, for a long time, i had my email address linked to my profile...it contained my real name...however, my inbox got spammed incessantly at work...so i consequently removed it... Never hid before... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Not sure if this is related but I'd like to change my avatar from its current hate/chest beater label magnet status to my real name (not that it would help anything )... is this an option? If not when we switch to the new provider will it be an option then? Or am I forced to just register a new avatar? With that said anonymous avatars are fine with me... it's the internet for heaven's sake... anonymous or not who really gives a shit beyond us losers who waste away the hours waiting for page tops and another chance to flame someone? hey...anyone seen my neutrino? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 I think it doesn't matter what name you go under on the internet. If you use an avatar long enough your own style comes out. Look at bwrts/shitacowski; sure enough after ben started using bwrts on a regular basis the dumb little pollak inside himself couldn't help but surface. I bet if Brian/Fairweather changed his title he'd still be a shrill right wing piece of shit. I think we all act differently based on the medium we use to communicate. In the case of the internet I don't think it's the best place to have any kind of serious debate over anything. It might be a good place to organize a meeting where something serious gets debated, but online everybody becomes charactors of themselves. it was the CIdiot using the CIdiot term that gave him away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Did I put my foot in my mouth again? Why is this under the climber's board? Has this enhanced anyone's climbing knowledge? If moderators were not directly involved in this discussion would it be considered spray? Just curious... yes catfight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.