"climbing" is sooo stupid

[glassgowkiss]

here is quote from "climbing" hot flashes section:

The difference between a flash and onsight at a well-traveled sport crag is subtle and debatable, however, given the number of climbers working the routes, the well-chalked holds and tick marks,

morons don't know what flash and on sight is. maybe if they visited a crag from time to time they would notice a big difference. ignorace of this publication is horrible

[sk]

here is quote from "climbing" hot flashes section:

The difference between a flash and onsight at a well-traveled sport crag is subtle and debatable, however, given the number of climbers working the routes, the well-chalked holds and tick marks,

morons don't know what flash and on sight is. maybe if they visited a crag from time to time they would notice a big difference. ignorace of this publication is horrible

you better define cus muffy had to look up flash in the climbing dictionary today and maybe they are wrong

 

flash is where you climb something clean?

 

onsight is where you walk up and climb something clean that you don't even know the name of, let a lone any beta?

 

p.s. i am ready to climb 5.12 now. when do my lessons start?

Edited May 9, 2005 by Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer

[layton]

climbing in general is fucking stupid Bob, just read what you have time to bitch about.

[thelawgoddess]

hasn't this discussion been had before? i can't see there being much debate on whether something is an onsight ...

[Dru]

Even if you just saw a picture of someone climbing the route printed in a mag, it isn't an onsight anymore.

 

I like to shout out obvious beta at the crag when walking by someone on a hard route just so they can only claim the beta flash and not the onsight.

[mec]

your so cruel...

[archenemy]

Even if you just saw a picture of someone climbing the route printed in a mag, it isn't an onsight anymore.

 

I like to shout out obvious beta at the crag when walking by someone on a hard route just so they can only claim the beta flash and not the onsight.

 

That's a cunning stunt.

[Dru]

There's a dyno move to a big jug on "Toxic" at Smith Rocks.

 

NONE OF YOU CAN ONSIGHT IT NOW BWAHAHAHAHA!

[olyclimber]

F = G * m1 * m2 / d^2

 

I think that pretty much destroys the idea of an onsight.

[gosolo]

I just onsited this thread...no, your beta was not useful

[matt_m]

here is quote from "climbing" hot flashes section:

The difference between a flash and onsight at a well-traveled sport crag is subtle and debatable, however, given the number of climbers working the routes, the well-chalked holds and tick marks,

morons don't know what flash and on sight is. maybe if they visited a crag from time to time they would notice a big difference. ignorace of this publication is horrible

 

Hmm - no I remember that article and thought their statement was pretty valid.

 

OnSight - Climber first try with NO prior knowledge of route - like Dru said a picture of a person on the route can give you beta and screw the onsight. OR On-sight :

Leading a climb with no falls and no "dogging" (hanging on the rope) on the first attempt without any prior knowledge (beta) of its features or difficulties.

 

Flash - Climbing a route first try WITH beta - either Dru telling us about the Dyno move on Toxic or yelling it etc etc. OR Flash:

To successfully lead a climb you've never previously attempted - with no falls or "dogging," (ie. hanging on the rope), but with prior knowledge (beta) of its features or difficulties.

 

WHAT climbing mag was trying to say was that with all the chalked holds etc you can more than likely get route beta from said chalk. Hmm I wonder if that hold is good? Well from all the chalk I'd guess yes. (This is different from looking at a clean, un-chalked route and trying to figure out if the rock is in-cut or sloping or hell, if it's even a hold)

 

What makes climbing stupid is when people get really bent out of shape about a magazine article that has no effect on their climbing what-so-ever. I put this in the same lame category as people who make stuff "artificially dangerous" because it makes them more "hard core" as a climber.

 

EDIT to include real glossary def.

Edited May 13, 2005 by matt_m

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

The chalked holds argument cuts both ways, however. Most routes contain more holds than those that actually get you correctly through the sequences, and pretty much every route has got the promising sucker holds thoroughly chalked, sometimes with an entire sucker sequence leading to a dead-end (anyone ever wind up in that real chalky, real promising-looking jug/hole to the right of the underclings on Blue Light Special? Oops.), which often makes up for any benefit gained by being able to see where the holds are. Also, most anyone onsighting at their limit will attest to the fact finding the holds is often not the problem; rather, figuring out the correct sequence in which to use them is. This is especially true on routes that traverse, or make several small moves over a relatively short space, which, on jingus little jizzler grips, will invariably punish you by making it damn near impossible to reverse the sequence you botched.

 

The other factor to consider is that it's essentially a level playing field. i.e. most climbers attempting a route are going to encounter it in similar condition (at least for most routes at well-traveled climbing areas), and so everyone who bags the onsight had the same amount of "beta," if you want to call it that, in the form of chalked holds. This, like the fact that pretty much every redpoint is done with the draws in place, makes the point pretty much moot.

[Billy]

Can the Reid Headwall be onsighted? Or, let's say I don't look at the guidebook, but go and climb the route, and don't fall. Is that a redpoint or an onsight?

[Drederek]

I seriously doubt very many people onsight a route knowing absolutely nothing about it. The name and grade and location and type and direction are all info most people leave the ground with. So I guess to truly "onsight" a climb you would have to be blindfolded, led to the airport, flown to an unknown destination (still blindfolded), hermetically sealed in plastic so you couldn't pick up clues to your whereabouts, then led to the climb (still blind folded). Then feel your way up to the base of the route and climb it (still blindfolded). Of course it would be a sightless "onsite" but what else would you call it?

[bonathanjarrett]

I am sorry but that was the silliest thing I have ever heard. You all are splitting hairs over a rediculous topic. The essence of climbing, whether it be sport clipping or alpine, lies in gathering information about the route on a moment by moment basis and responding to it physically and mentally. Any climber worth their salt also looks ahead, reads the terrain, and makes a plan (which they will most likely alter as needed). Onsight does not mean no knowledge of the route. It means no knowledge provided by an outside source: guide book, friend, climber on the route, etc. Anything that you can see for yourself from the ground or on route is fair game. Onsight is the ability to adjust to the terrain that you discover around yourself while climbing.

[Cairns]

Then feel your way up to the base of the route and climb it (still blindfolded). Of course it would be a sightless "onsite" but what else would you call it?

 

Simply a no-sight.

 

Part of the problem comes from mixing the objective and subjective realms. I prefer to stay with something observable like flash and would defer further use or discussion of onsight until we have the mind reading tech.

 

At the Gunks seeing ALL the holds actually was pretty hard in the years before widespread chalk use. The game is different now in so many ways that chalk is lost in the noise.

[Drederek]

Don't be sorry BJ. Pure silliness. Sometimes I say the stupidest shit. The point I was making is the concept of climbing something with no beta is stupid. You are going to know something about the climb before you start up. The difference between a flash and an onsite is purely semantical. Or perhaps egotistical.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

The difference between a flash and an onsite is purely semantical. Or perhaps egotistical.

 

No, the difference between a flash and an onsight is pretty widely understood and well defined. You either got the beta from someone else by talking to them or watching them climb the route, or you didn't. Period.

[iain]

Can the Reid Headwall be onsighted? Or, let's say I don't look at the guidebook, but go and climb the route, and don't fall. Is that a redpoint or an onsight?

 

Only an onsight if you drive eyes-closed until Govy from PDX. But if you come from Bend and reached the chains w/o a take Sux when you round i-rock and see a bunch of gapers TR'ing it into submission.

 

I hear (this is only a rumor though) that someone out there has onsighted it. He might be from Europe.

[Billy]

If it (the Reid Headwall) actually was onsighted by this supposed Euro hardman,does his choice of leashles tools slash the grade of the route? Furthermore, can the consistent use of leashless tools slash the difficulty of the route to the point where it could not even remotely be considered an "onsight", because of the apparent advantages of such a modern tool? Does the possibility of using evening training classes at Rocky Butte to learn leashless technique blow anyone's who has participated in these classes chance for an onsight of the Reid?

 

These things and many other factors are tough questions that we must answer as a group, before we can validate an actual onsight of the Reid Headwall.

[bonathanjarrett]

So do you get the onsight if you rap-bolt the headwall before sending it? I mean really, you would have seen all the crux moves and ideally slapped a fatty glue in right before them? There goes the sick-a$$ headpoint!

[iain]

Uhm, it's already bolted. Didn't you see me mention that above? Props to the guys who hauled all that steel up there. Usually the bolts are iced over though, so you have to go digging a bit. But the gullies are bolted and there were metolius hangers up there last time.

 

Billy - with all the activity at R.B. someone's going to send it leashless one of these days. Exciting times. Scarface. To Bolt. Just Do It. Reid Headwall leashless.

[Cairns]

The difference between a flash and an onsite is purely semantical. Or perhaps egotistical.

 

No, the difference between a flash and an onsight is pretty widely understood and well defined. You either got the beta from someone else by talking to them or watching them climb the route, or you didn't. Period.

 

Footnote.

 

Your definition may help YOU decide if you flashed or onsighted iff you have no mental defects. How does it help ME pigeonhole your style? Can I look under the lid? I am a trained neurophysiologist.

 

My understanding is that your understanding of wide understanding is flawed.

[tomtom]

The difference between a flash and an onsite is purely semantical. Or perhaps egotistical.

 

No, the difference between a flash and an onsight is pretty widely understood and well defined. You either got the beta from someone else by talking to them or watching them climb the route, or you didn't. Period.

 

Footnote.

 

Your definition may help YOU decide if you flashed or onsighted iff you have no mental defects. How does it help ME pigeonhole your style? Can I look under the lid? I am a trained neurophysiologist.

 

My understanding is that your understanding of wide understanding is flawed.

Actually, this is an endnote.

 

But what do I know? I'm an untrained neurophysiologist without a windshirt.

[Cairns]

The difference between a flash and an onsite is purely semantical. Or perhaps egotistical.

 

No, the difference between a flash and an onsight is pretty widely understood and well defined. You either got the beta from someone else by talking to them or watching them climb the route, or you didn't. Period.

 

Footnote.

 

Your definition may help YOU decide if you flashed or onsighted iff you have no mental defects. How does it help ME pigeonhole your style? Can I look under the lid? I am a trained neurophysiologist.

 

My understanding is that your understanding of wide understanding is flawed.

Actually, this is an endnote.

 

But what do I know? I'm an untrained neurophysiologist without a windshirt.

 

Thanks, stranger. Anything but a period. Let us never be so final. Why don't you have a windshirt? And what is a windshirt? Explosive diarrhea?