No more MAST to Save Your Butt

[AlpineK]

You don't have to do anything you don't want to, even if it means wracking up a huge rescue bill because you didn't buy the insurance. Then again you don't have to pay the bill...GW and the State Department will protect you from those commie euro bill collectors.

[treknclime]

[treknclime]

Hey Mikey...glad you're not on those sea rescues!

 

[chirp]

Gotta say its sad, I personally owe MAST a for getting my wife out to Harborview in 1991 from her ill fated meeting with Chair peak Talus.

[Dr_Crash]

I thought it was that you MUST buy insurance in Europe. I think it costs $15 a day? You'd all scream bloody murder before you'd pay that here.

 

Nah. I just checked. It is way less. There are many annual insurances (FFME, CAF, Au Vieux Campeur) which provides for competition, and one can buy a daily insurance for 2 Euros a day for the occasional thing (an incentive for people who say want to just try climbing for a week).

 

drC

[snoboy]

Do you have to pay extra to get that pretty helicopter with all the stars on it?

[snoboy]

I agree with billcoe.

We intentionally put ourselves in risk.

Why should we expect someone to save us?

The people getting rescued should have to pay for every cent of the rescue, unless there are volunteers involved.

If I'm ever hurt that bad, it will feel good knowing a helicopter is on it's way, but I should still have to pay for it. They could put the money somewhere to help people that never asked for grief, like abused children, etc...

Now that's a rescue program.

I'm sure flying a blackhawk up a mountain with a crew costs a pretty penny.

I don't think climbers deserve free or subsidized rescues.

 

I think the effort should ultimatly be from volunteers or money from the ones being rescued.

 

 

Should we extend that to the Coast Guard too? Maybe ambulance as well? How about police forces while we're at it. I mean we all know it's risky walking alone in dark alleys...

 

[knelson]

 

Should we extend that to the Coast Guard too? Maybe ambulance as well? How about police forces while we're at it. I mean we all know it's risky walking alone in dark alleys...

 

 

Coast Guard?... perhaps.

 

It IS a tough call where to draw the line... that's why I personally don't like drawing it.

 

BUT, I think we can all agree that climbing is something that we're voluntarily doing. WE (or those climbing around us,) are the ones putting our butts at risk. [Whether or not the stupid ass climbing carelessly above us should pay for OUR hospital bills when we get clunked by their fallout is a different thread. Regardless... WE put ourselves in that position... but I digress.]

 

Comparing climbing rescues to car wreck rescues/ambulance rides (which you pay for) is far from an even comparison. Granted... you personally decide whether or not you get in a car, but there's a whole bunch more people driving them climbing. (Thank God.) Just thought I needed to point out the obvious.

 

As many have already noted, our rescue resources have been slowly dwindling over the years already. High-altitude stuff has been hampered from the minute the troops went into Iraq. The loss of MAST is terrible, and will probably effect/affect the general public more than climbers. Pretty sure that deaths from car wrecks in really rural areas will increase. That statistic should be pretty easy to verify in a few years. I just hope I'm not one of the statistics.

 

Bitch to Congress. Bitch to the Senate. And remember your bitching when the State/County puts that bond measure on the ballot to buy and staff a chopper.

 

-kurt

[billcoe]

 

Should we extend that to the Coast Guard too? Maybe ambulance as well? How about police forces while we're at it. I mean we all know it's risky walking alone in dark alleys...

 

 

Coast Guard?... perhaps.

 

It IS a tough call where to draw the line... that's why I personally don't like drawing it.

 

BUT, I think we can all agree that climbing is something that we're voluntarily doing. WE (or those climbing around us,) are the ones putting our butts at risk.

 

Yeah, it's a tough call. Take fisherman. When they put out to sea and put their ass on the line, we benefit from that. The coast guard is there, available. Should the fisherman pay for the rescue? Absolutley. It is often the case where a few brave (stupid? ) few put out under financial pressure while others choose to stay home under marginal conditions. That is a choice they make.

 

As far as climbers go: ask yourself this question. If we as climbers demand that the government spend money AND risk lives (and no rescue is risk free as the pavehawk which landed sideways onto Mt Hood shows) then they should expect the right to decide WHO gets to climb, WHEN they get to climb, the CERTIFICATIONS they MUST have, and WHERE they can go.

 

If you demand their involvement, then they should be able to set the terms and conditions, no? Is that not fair? If you not even as demand, but via default, allow them to commit lives and money to our playtime? Is that not fair?

 

 

My thoughts: they stay out of my life, I make my own choices and pay the consequesnse when I make a mistake.

 

MY choices, MY decisions, MY life, MY ass that is risked, when I want, where I chose and I pay if I overreach or make a mistake of going into a remote area solo with only a cell phone and not 4 or 5 well trained buddies.

 

I would want you to have the freedom to make those choices as well.

 

I'm very surprised I haven't had a dogpile of people swearing at me for suggesting the goverment leave us alone. This should be a passionate issue. One which has many nuances and no one answer.

 

Thats my opinion anyway.

 

Regards to all:

 

Bill

[catbirdseat]

I'd be willing to pay insurance for private rescue service if it existed. I wonder what it would take to get such a thing off the ground, so to speak.

[iain]

What do you mean; insurance to cover your expenses, or an actual contract to come get you? You can get the former by joining the American Alpine Club.

 

Even though it is unlikely to be billed for a rescue in the PNW, having this cheap insurance is nice when the headline WHO PAYS shows up underneath a chopper photo in the next day's Oregonian and you can respond, go ahead, bill me.

[rbw1966]

AAC insurance only covers you for overseas rescue. Not in the US.

 

The military has always said they welcome the opportunity to rescue folks as it provides realistic training for them.

[iain]

I think you are covered in the US. From AAC website:

 

Worldwide Outfitter & Guides Association, through its Underwriters, will pay any and all emergency rescue and evacuation costs and expenses for which an American Alpine Club (“AAC”) Member in good standing may be legally responsible for emergency rescue and evacuations of such AAC Members anywhere in the world, subject to the following:

 

Link:

http://www.americanalpineclub.org/community/members-insurance.asp

[rbw1966]

"The costs of military evacuation flights operated by the U.S. Military or Air National Guard within the United States are not covered costs or expenses, unless the insured is billed for such costs by such entities. "

 

Since the insured isn't billed this really doesn't do ya much here in the US. Good to know though.

[knelson]

"The costs of military evacuation flights operated by the U.S. Military or Air National Guard within the United States are not covered costs or expenses, unless the insured is billed for such costs by such entities. "

 

Since the insured isn't billed this really doesn't do ya much here in the US. Good to know though.

 

Well... yes and no. If you're evacuated by a military unit, you're right - no charge. But even before this latest cut, a military chopper wasn't a done deal.

 

As Gator and others have commented, the private air ambulances have had to pick up when the Army took all their toys to a different sand box... at least on Rainier. Our group helped haul a guy down from Camp Schurman a few years back 'cause they couldn't secure any military choppers. A private outfit picked him up at Glacier Basin in very soft snow! I'm pretty sure they didn't do it out of the kindness of their heart.

 

I've always been on the "rescues shouldn't cost anything" kick when military flights were available. As mentioned... they gotta get their hours in, and live action training is the best way of all (unfortunately for the unintentional "trainier.") Even though I don't agree with their mission right now, the Army does have its priorities... and mountain rescue is sort of low on that list, I'm guessing. Sucks - but what are you gonna do.

 

What I haven't heard is what happens when the equipment and people come back? To me, seems like a temporary issue... I hope.

 

-kurt

[chesterboo]

Thank God for Bush! "Operation Iraqi Freedom" How many actually buy thats why we are there. To "free the Iraqi people" from their horrible lives. There will now be generations of war scarred American haters for years to come that turn into baby terrorists and more....The helos are just the tip of it people. I guess if all we have to worry about is not having helo rescues then we should count ourselves fortunate at this point.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I thought it was that you MUST buy insurance in Europe. I think it costs $15 a day? You'd all scream bloody murder before you'd pay that here.

 

I'd pay it for the volcanoes when no helicopter is available.

$15 a day beats a multi-$10000 bill - or death.

[tyree]

you mean climbing and skiing are dangerous! I could get hurt and possibly die with out a rescue or body recovery? hhhhhmmmmm

[flashclimber]

Wow...you guys have a lot of time on your hands...Oh yeah..there isnt much snow in the mountains..which means we don't really need the heli's to recue your butts when u get stuck up there....Hahahaha go get a day job!