I've been humbled

[glacier_dup1]

quote:

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Originally posted by RobBob:

But I do believe in introspection when you scare the hell out of yourself. Not a knee-jerk "get back on the horse" response.

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Agreed, Anna, if you're still there, as well as others who have working in incident respose - I believe a post-response debrief is pretty typical - where things went right, where things went wrong. So think of this as a very rough debrief. The element here is to take whatever lessons learned and apply the next time. So running roughshod back onto the horse (or whatever mixed metaphors) is not very wise. I've tried the same in the past, and, for me, at least, found that I coped with the bad experience by either trying to suppress it or compartmentalize it out, neither of which addressed the root cause of the problem/experience in the first place, and allowed it to fester.

 

Oh, yeah, remember we do this shit for fun.

[Fence_Sitter]

quote:

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there is not a good way to get back on the climb even if they weren't hurt.

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they are called prussiks:rolleyes: ...and my strategy is not falling...and so far it has worked out quite nicely... as for the runout pitch, it is like 5.5 with huge chicken heads... if you cant runout 5.5, you shouldn't be on that climb... and it isn't THAT runout...mabe 30-40 feet... if you know where to look for pro...i got a nut in before the traverse and then a 'lott when i got to the dihedral... no biggie... darrington has 5x the runout...(60 meters)

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

quote:

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Originally posted by glacier:

Oh, yeah, remember we do this shit for fun.

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Wait, it's not just a big ego-stroking, spray-boosting suffer-fest? Shit!

 

FOR SALE:

1 - 9.7mm x 60m rope, almost new, in Metolius rope bag

12 - wiregate quickdraws, almost new

1 - Petzl Gri-gri w/locking biner

1 - Arc'teryx Vapor harness, size L

Assorted slings and biners

1 - chalk bag + 1 pound Metolius Super Chalk

1 - Arc'teryx Khamsin 50 backpack

1 - TNF 600 fill DryLoft down jacket w/hood

5 pairs La Sportiva climbing shoes, size 40.5

1 - Metolius crash pad (small)

Assorted climbing guide books

1 - Subaru Legacy L wagon (2002)

 

PM or e-mail your offer!

[Mr._Chips]

[catbirdseat]

I had a similar incident occur at Vantage. Although I had been leading trad for a couple of years, in this case I was over my head. I got on a route that I thought was 5.8, but was really 5.10. I got to the crux and kept thrashing it. I took three short falls on a 1 inch cam before I decided to give up and be lowered. As soon as I weighted the rope again, the cam pulled out and I fell about 25 ft. A big hex checked my fall and my feet missed hitting the deck by about 1 or 2 feet. My belayer had rope burns on his hand because I fell just as he was taking in rope. It would have been a pair of broken ankles for sure had the hex not held.

 

Surprisingly, the hex came out easily when I climbed up to retreive it. My omnidirectional anchor, on the other hand, wedged pretty good.

 

Lessons learned:

 

1) If you fall on a piece, check it to make sure it hasn't walked.

2) Get a guide book and know exactly what you are getting into. Don't lead trad at your limit.

3) Make sure your belayer is paying attention and wears belay gloves.

 

I can top rope 5.10, sport lead 5.9, but have no business leading trad on anything over 5.7-5.8.

 

--Brian

[max]

shed-head: Seriously though...what do people think of rapping vs lowering off a questionable anchor? It seems to me rapping would be the way to go but what do I know???

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

how about... neither?

[iain]

nice, dragging this old beast back up from the basement.

[iain]

for a more worthwhile reply: I can lead sport face routes in the 5.10 range, but I don't think it really makes much difference on my trad climbing range, since it seems almost a different skill set altogether.

[snoboy]

Funny, I was wondering when this was going to get dragged up again. Yikes.

 

On leading limits:

 

I lead up to 10+ trad, TR 11-, and lead 10- on bolts. Is that fucked up or what??

 

I think it is OK to lead trad to yyour limit, if you know what your limit is, and you are a competent trad leader.

 

Blah blah blah.

 

Good thing we got rid of Anna hey?? She was a real hazard to herself, and this board

[Dwayner]

[RedMonk]

I lead up to 10+ trad, TR 11-, and lead 10- on bolts. Is that fucked up or what??

 

I think it is OK to lead trad to yyour limit, if you know what your limit is, and you are a competent trad leader.

 

totally agree...i lead harder with trad cause i get psyched into a lead...with sport...i jsut dont care and usually whip once and give up...the first time i did a hard 10 trad i whiped 2x on teh crux...but i was confident that my gear was bomber...and you just have to knwo when you got a solid piece and that comes with experience...

[texplorer]

Catbirdseat or Brian or whoever,

1)The main difference between leading trad and sport in my opinion is fear. If you are a truly competent trad leader in most situations you should be able to place gear that is sufficient to take falls upon. Yes, you are correct in always checking your gear each time you fall on it. I sometimes even place another piece while hanging just to add a bit of confidence before attempting the moves above again. Leading trad at your limit is simply learning to overcome the fear you have about your gear failing (beside learning to climb cracks).

 

2) Not to say that belay gloves don't work but I've held many falls and never gotten rope burn on my hands. I don't know if they are actually a necessity of climbing if correct belay technique is used and the belayer is paying attention.

 

Sounds like you are used to pushing your limits. If you feel your trad gear placements could be better try just getting alot of practice on easier climbs with someone who can critique them. I learned an immense amount about the stability of placements whilst learning to aid this last year. Whatever your goals, remember to be safe but don't let irrational fears limit you.

 

Carpe Diem

[catbirdseat]

Tex, I agree with you that fear is the main factor holding me back on trad lead. With more experience, I expect to lead closer to my limit. I don't think that fear is irrational though. One is taking more risk when leading trad compared to clipping bolts. When one gets confidence in his placements and has taken a few falls, the fear should subside.

[Off_White]

Fear is my friend, it tells me to pay really close attention.

[texplorer]

Amen brothas

[snoboy]

My biggest leap in ability came when I learnt to distinguish rational fears from irrational ones.

 

When you have a good piece at you waist and you can't see the next moves, and you don't move up, well that's irrational fear, and if you can control it, you will go far.

 

When you have a shitty piece 5 feet below your feet, and you 10 feet above a ledge, and you can't see the next hold that's a pretty sensible time to get scared!

[RedMonk]

totally good point snoboy...it seems that i was either totally controlled by fear...or basking in every moment of it! but now...i am starting to deal with even my rational fear better...but knowing that freaking out will solve nothing and just know you gotta work through it...

[Billygoat]

Talk about floggin' a dead horse. I hope Anna has recovered from all this attention.

[Off_White]

Naw Billygoat, we're just having our own conversation. I suspect Anna has moved on and isn't around much. The issue of fear versus judgement however will never go away.

[catbirdseat]

Maybe it is time for someone to start a new thread on the subject of "Fear versus Judgement". It could be fertile ground.

[Attitude]

1.67?

[iain]

you're out of your f'ing mind bringing this one back from the dead.

[Dru]

Attitude said:

1.67?

 

[iain]

hmm my guess is the "real-world" mechanical advantage of a 2:1 pulley system as outlined in intro mountaineering texts.

[Off_White]

 

Good, I was afraid it was the IQ test again.