glacier Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 So, got the new Rock $ Ice 'Ethics' issue in the mail yesterday. Been perusing it, but haven't had time to digest it cover-to-cover yet. Read John Long's essay, and Dappen's article on Infinite Bliss. Looks like Dishman made another article - who knew that Washington was such a hotbed of ethics indiscretions? Anyway, off to read more. Post up and discuss after ya'll have had a chance to rifle through the pages. Quote
Dru Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 its funny you used "Rifle" and "ethics" in the same post Quote
glacier Posted October 13, 2004 Author Posted October 13, 2004 An inadvertant pun from my vantage-point. Quote
slothrop Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 I'll have to chip in a few bucks for that issue. Sounds riveting. Quote
CPOly Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 Sounds riveting  Sure is! It's got me glued to my seat reading it. Quote
willstrickland Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 Damn, I'm gonna drop everything and get to the newstand chop-chop! Quote
billcoe Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 How about that cover piton? Â I think I have that one in my basement somewhere. Â Haven't had time to do anything but look at the cover. Â Ethics issue? Thought those discussions ended in the 80's everywhere but on this board? None of the new climbers know for ethics. Quote
sk Posted October 13, 2004 Posted October 13, 2004 I haven't purchased a copey of R&I in a year... I want it Quote
Dr_Crash Posted October 14, 2004 Posted October 14, 2004 Sounds riveting  Sure is! It's got me glued to my seat reading it.  I was pinned down too. </more bad puns>  drC Quote
Dru Posted October 14, 2004 Posted October 14, 2004 The discussion of how bolts should be placed held me rapt Quote
willstrickland Posted October 14, 2004 Posted October 14, 2004 I agree, My Faith was restored. A few other routes were too. And the editorial on the spiritual side of wilderness was empowering. Quote
Jens Posted October 15, 2004 Posted October 15, 2004 The Twight article was one of my favorites I have read in a quite a while. Â Twight's article certainly makes a strong defense for a few of the posters on this board that are radical extreme -anti rap-bolt. Perhaps those posters should never be edited, moved, or banned, even if they are crazy in their passions against rap-bolting at crags, mountains, and mixed areas - no matter how obnoxious they get? Quote
chucK Posted October 15, 2004 Posted October 15, 2004 I just got it, and only read the "Ignorant Bliss" article. I thought the article was alright, a little one-sided (they make it sound like the access trail is barely there, when in reality it's only indistinct right at the start). Â A nitpick that struck me is that the topo is quite significantly off in a couple of places. I guess the editors felt they needed to put a picture in and just guessed where the route went (the author claims to have climbed it). Notably, the line is not completely correct on the part that everybody gets lost on! Although, their line does go by the key bush (once you find that, go straight up to bolted anchor). Quote
dberdinka Posted October 20, 2004 Posted October 20, 2004 I just got it, and only read the "Ignorant Bliss" article. I thought the article was alright, a little one-sided .... Â A little one sided? Â I finally read this article the other day. Â It's an implicit approval of Infinite Hubris and essentially claims the hubbub over the route centers around a misreading of maps and a few spoil sports who don't like new trails. It saddens me that the question of whether bolted alpine sport routes are ethical is never even raised. Am I that crusty? Â He certainly goes out of his way to slam users of an unnamed internet bulletin board. Hmmmmm....who could that be? Quote
JayB Posted October 21, 2004 Posted October 21, 2004 Interesting sidenote - quite apart from the ethics of the route itself - is the fact that when I went out there on a rainy day to take a look at the trail and the base of the route for myself there was a considerable pile of trash in the pull-out nearest the route, with a full on debris field extending well beyond the road and into the forest. Its amazing that with all of the people who purport to be outraged about this foul intrusion into the pristine wilds that abound in close proximity to the Middle Fork Road, and have gone in to survey the damage themselves, that this pile of trash had persisted for so long. I would have thought that this rubbish heap would have been gone within seconds of the ALPS et al getting out of their cars. Â However, despite months of controversy, gnashing of teeth, etc - it seems that none of the impassioned wilderness advocates could stir themselves to undertake the simple task of picking up the obvious pile of trash en route to the trail that leads to the route - which was quite a bit more conspicuous than the trail itself. Or - not that many people who are spewing about the trail or the route have ever actually seen either in person. Â In any event - I hiked the trail, headed for the base, and saw one bolt after a few minutes of looking. If I wasn't a climber (1) I would have never even noticed the trail as I was driving by if I hadn't set the odometer - and it took a couple of passes to find it when I was looking for it (2) if I had been a hiker I never ever would have even bothered to follow such a trail for any reason whatsoever (3) If some accident of fate had lead me to stray onto the base of the route I would not have even noticed the said bolt and (4) there appeared to be at least a square kilometer, if not more, bolt free terrain on the West Peak of Garfield, and at least a couple of square miles of bolt-free terrain on the other peaks (5) I noticed a massive linear swath of forest had been cleared at the base of the mountain. It was at least 30 feet wide and looked as though the cartesian devastation that it wrought upon the forest continued for miles and miles. Then I realized that it was - the road that everyone drives to the base of the route, either to climb it, or to bemoan its existence. Then I picked up about 60 pounds of sopping wet trash that had been there for at least a few months and drove away. Â I am of course comparing apples to oranges here, and this is not to dismiss the concerns about rap-bolting in the mountains, but I would suggest that a sense of perspective is in order. If you are really concerned about preserving the rock and the integrity of wild areas in Washington, I believe there is a project afoot that will remove several hundred million metric tons of it from the flanks of Mt. Cashmere in the very near future. Quote
olyclimber Posted November 2, 2004 Posted November 2, 2004 If anyone hasn't read this, I have a copy you can have. (Got it free in the mail from Northern Mountain Supply, and I already had a copy). PM me if you want it. You'll have to pick it up from downtown Seattle during the day or in West Seattle evenings. Quote
Dru Posted November 4, 2004 Posted November 4, 2004 The last 5-6 issues, since they got Jeff Achey as editor Climbing Mag has had R&I fully beat to the mat. Quote
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