Rapping with one rope and a ball of twine

[dberdinka]

Anyone ever done this?

 

I've heard of people justing tieing a really big knot in the main rope so as to jam up against the rappel ring. Rapping then pulling the rope down using a much thinner cord. Sounds like a method fraught with potential disasters.

 

I'm thinking of getting a stretch of 5mm or 6mm cord for light hauling and emergency rapping, per above. (60m by 5mm weights 2.1 lbs! 6mm weights 3 lbs!)

 

Any experience or thoughts on the subject?

[rbw1966]

I've used this method before, albeit with one slight modification. The thought of trusting my life to a knot jammed against a rap ring gives me nightmares (not to mention the potential of getting that knot jammed into the ring so hard its stuck) so I tie a figure 8 in the end of the rap rope (after threading it through the ring) then clip a biner into it. I then clip the biner to the free end. I tie my pull cord to the biner so that when I pull the cord the biner slides down the rap line.

[DPS]

Have you thought about using 5mm Maxim Tech Cord? Thin and light, but with a 5000lb tensile strength. 60 meters would set you back $200.00 though.

[catbirdseat]

That's overkill, DPS. It doesn't need to be super strong.

[billcoe]

Thanks RBW, learned something new. So you are like carrying parachute cord or somthing in your backpack during the climb just for this express purpose?

[Dru]

just jump you chickens.

 

seriously though you can rap off a skyhook and shake it till it comes down after. then you dont need the ball of twine. light is right.

[glacier]

Sheepshank knot with the loops cut. Shake loose at the bottom. Only problem is that your rap line gets shorter with each successive rap.

[cj001f]

See bottom of this page

[willstrickland]

Nice cj001f. That is a pretty cool rig-up.

[Peter_Puget]

I have actually used this method with heavy weight string! It is completely safe if there are chain anchors but if you are rapping into the unknown it is too dangerous in my book. I have used the RBW method too but most often if I think a rope is damaged. The carabiner is subject to getting jammed in things and in some cases adds a fair bit of friction.

 

My conclusion:

I try to avoid both techniques but Rbw’s is very useful at times.

[JoshK]

All good suggestions...

 

for the sake of ease of use I have 50m of 6mm. Maybe when that wears out I'll think of using one of these other schemes.

 

I like rbw's, I'm sorry to say I'd never even thought of that...a much safer way then knots fer sure.

[jon]

Yeah I've seen that setup before, it's pretty cool. I think the only problem is with the biner on the end you seriously increase the potential of your rope getting stuck above you.

[willstrickland]

Josh, what knot are you using to join the 6mm and your lead line?

[foraker]

Interesting. So if you are some place without a rap ring, are you carrying those little locking rings or are you letting the system cinch up against the anchor sling?

[layton]

I use RBW's setup. I tie the two ends together so the knot is on the side of the skinny rope. I tied a fig-8 on a bight as low as possible and clip a locker to it and around the fatty rope. If the 6mm breaks it is still secure to the knot above the biner. I also have a stuff sack and a toy biner. I clip the tail of the 6mm to the stuff sack and biner, and stuff the rope into the bag. EASY tossin'!

 

The big problem is if you pull the rope and your lead rope gets stuck when it tumbles down. Have fun re-leading whatever you just rapped w/a 6mm rope!

 

Also sometimes it is hard to start pulling the rope, so after the 1st person raps and does a "test pull", and the rap isn't a rope stretcher, the 2nd and rap and lock off the fat rope, pulling the knot as low as possible to avoid sticking.

 

Once (on inspiration pk) the knot passed through the anchor makign it IMPOSSIBLE to pull either rope. That was an old fashioned good time!

 

The 6mm rap is great "bail" insurance, but my stomach would be in knots if I had to do more than a few double rope raps. Stuffing the 6mm is a pain in the ass, as is pulling it. If you are climbign with TWO packs, the 2nd's pack could contain an 8mm dynamic lead rope. The extra weight may be worth it to avoid epicing on the raps, and avoiding double rope technique on the climb (if there are lots of handing belays, etc.)

 

I, of course, use all three systems and regret my decision when I select any of them.

 

I think a great idea in some cases is to lead with a 70mm 9.4 rope and use that as the only rap line. Sometimes rapping with one rope and setting up extra stations with extra tat is a lot lot lot faster.

It all depends on the climb and the risks you are willing to take to save weight, and cluster fucks on the lead.

[layton]

a few more things. you don't have to tie a huge knot, if the 2nd rapper slides the knot way down like I expained. Also, if you use a big rounded locking biner, it shouldn't get stuck like a knot would.

I tie a european death knot (EDK) in everything i rap off of (even the tat). I'll back up the 6mm/9.4mm setup with a fishermans on both tails cuz it looks scary.

[rbw1966]

Will, I've joined 6mm to a rap rope using the EKD.

 

I prefer using a biner because the biner follows the rap line all the way down. I've never gotten the biner stuck; usually just whipping the rope avoids any obstacles.

 

I've also rapped off a single strand of 6mm cord before. Scary but defnintely do-abble if you add an extra biner and re-direct to increase the friction.

 

Also, using 5mm or stronger leaves you with something you can cut rap slings with if you need them.

[Hal_Burton]

A fifi hook is another option.

The small hole at the top of the hook is made for a small line to be tied to.

Your rap line is tied to the big hole.

Hook the thing on the rap ring and go.

Pull the string and the hook pops off the ring.

It very fast because there's no threading of the rope thru the rings. For redundancy you can duct tape two hooks together side by side.

[layton]

When I rap with a fifi hook, I only bring on rope.

I fix the end of it to the hook and rap 60m. To get my rope back, i simply push up on the rope to unhook the fifi.

[Dustin_B]

When I rap with a fifi hook, I only bring on rope.

I fix the end of it to the hook and rap 60m. To get my rope back, i simply push up on the rope to unhook the fifi.

 

Cool, magic!!

[billcoe]

When I rap with a fifi hook, I only bring on rope.

I fix the end of it to the hook and rap 60m. To get my rope back, i simply push up on the rope to unhook the fifi.

 

Sorry: I didn't live to 50 yrs old by trying things like that. So NFW.

 

2 words..., 2 words... for the graduate.

 

 

Twin ropes.

 

Last time I was in Yos guy had em. Shit worked great, and since they were pretty much letting me lead, I got to belay the 2 people at once who followed.

[cj001f]

6mm is nice and easy, specially with a gadget like this

Imlay Bagette

 

No need for the pain of twins.

[glassbonghits]

You wanker are too sissy to just downclimb? Who needs rope.

[dberdinka]

A fifi hook is another option.

The small hole at the top of the hook is made for a small line to be tied to.

Your rap line is tied to the big hole.

Hook the thing on the rap ring and go.

Pull the string and the hook pops off the ring.

It very fast because there's no threading of the rope thru the rings. For redundancy you can duct tape two hooks together side by side.

 

It's just amazing what great advice you can get on the Internet!

 

So lots of peeps have used the pull cord system any reason to get 6mm instead of 5mm?

[JoshK]

When I rap with a fifi hook, I only bring on rope.

I fix the end of it to the hook and rap 60m. To get my rope back, i simply push up on the rope to unhook the fifi.

 

you "push up" on the rope? Are you climbing with a 60m still wire or something??