Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • olyclimber

      WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS   02/03/18

      We have upgraded to new forum software as of late last year, and it makes everything here so much better!  It is now much easier to do pretty much anything, including write Trip Reports, sell gear, schedule climbing related events, and more. There is a new reputation system that allows for positive contributors to be recognized,  it is possible to tag content with identifiers, drag and drop in images, and it is much easier to embed multimedia content from Youtube, Vimeo, and more.  In all, the site is much more user friendly, bug free, and feature rich!   Whether you're a new user or a grizzled cascadeclimbers.com veteran, we think you'll love the new forums. Enjoy!
Sign in to follow this  
joekania

Climbers stuck on Glacier

Recommended Posts

quote:

Originally posted by Jim:

I've nothing aganinst cell phones to call friends to let 'em know what's up. It's just the "I got myself into this mess, no one's hurt and I want to go home" syndrome. I did help board two folks on a copter on Denali who had called in a rescue. One was tired, the other a sprained wrist from a hard arrest. Is this what we want rescue folks to risk their necks for? Maybe you do, I don't. It's the increased reliance on someone to bail you out that I don't care for. Sounds like if it were his choice, Mr. Lambone would have chosen otherwise.

Given the circumstances I feel we as a team made the right choice. Although it really bothered me that calling for help was what it came down to. My fiance and friend were bothered by it also, but they were less inclined to let their egos get in the way of asking for help from profesionals.

 

If it had been with one of my regular (ie. experienced male) climbing partners, no we would have never considered calling. Well, unless we had to jump in the same sleeping bag for more than one night.

 

Still, I do believe that if we were two nights late without calling, one of our loved ones would have initiated a search for us. Obviously not the better alternative.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

If it had been with one of my regular (ie. experienced male) climbing partners, no we would have never considered calling.

an experienced female wouldn't do the trick, eh....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So is this like the literal version of "guys would rather die than ask for directions"? [laf]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lambone - you're right it can be complicated. Sorry if I sounded a bit strident, didn't mean to. Glad you and you're party are safe at home, and unhurt to climb again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Smoker:

Kudos to all of "us" for having restraint and attempting reasonable conversation.

 

I guess the only point I would make, and I was not there so I'm not second guessing your choices,

is this- With an altimeter, compass and topo the Sitcom route is navigatable. But you must be competent to do so otherwise you will get lost and that would be a worse choice than the choices you made.

 

Smoker

Very true, and I and my companions appreciate it as well. Hell even Rurp was sort of nice...crazy...

 

Also you are correct about the navigation stuff, unfortunately we only had an compass and topo, but no altimiter or GPS.

 

Still do-able, yes. But without an altimiter the margin for error was higher, considering how much I practice my orientation skills, it was too high.

 

Merely descending the Sitcum would have been one thing, but consider this. We still had the crux of the Frosbite Ridge ahead of us. The last Ice wall to the summit. Before the whiteout we had seen several crevases running different directions at different points around the area.

 

Also, my partner had never used and ice axe or crampons before saturday, and didn't have any shell gloves. This meant I got to do all the leading with thin liner gloves...meanwhile we were soaking wet by the time we had gotten our stuff packed. I figured at most an hour to the summit and three down to boulder basin in a whiteout if nothing went wrong. That's four hours of exposure...

 

I spent along time pondering these facts in that tent...and determined that the odds were not in our favor.

 

As it turns out, our rescuers led out of the ice face with no crampons and ski poles, placing no protection, and we spent an hour at most glissading the Sitcum in the sun...

 

Talk about feeling inadequate... [Roll Eyes] Just goes to show that it's all relative.

 

[ 07-31-2002, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: Lambone ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by sayjay:

quote:

If it had been with one of my regular (ie. experienced male) climbing partners, no we would have never considered calling.

an experienced female wouldn't do the trick, eh....

no, I just don't have any regular female partners besides my fiance...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HARHARHAR ChucK, that made me laugh.

 

Hey, is anybody else thinking that a whole discussion about (a) going light, and (b) multi-day trips and forecasts, and © both at the same time, is just waiting to happen here...?

 

Bring on the spray [big Grin]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Several observations:

 

You should have done this on Mt. Rainier instead. Then Big Lou would have scrambled up there in half an hour, thrown all three of you in his giant Jansport expedition pack (plus your gear). I understand that he carries a lighted wood stove, a snack bar and a soda machine in there so you would have been O.K. In fact, he would have had to talk you into leaving the pack when he reached the Paradise Parking Lot. He would have set you down gently in the Glacier Lounge in the Paradise Inn, where he'd round up some Irish Coffee for the group and let you know that "The Mountain was really showin' off!" with the weather and such. You'll offer to pay for the coffee's but Lou will wink and say..."Don't worry about it...the mountains don't care."

Yup...you should been on Rain-Dawg.

 

Also...did you and the girls use blue-bags? If so, you'd better have hiked them out or handed them to the first friendly ranger. (You're lucky you weren't with "pope"...he'd have gone on top of your sleeping bag if there was so much as a small breeze outside the tent.)

 

Oy! It should never happen twice! I'll agree with RURP...your nasty self needs a big ole beer and a burger! [chubit][big Drink]

 

- Dwayner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by fleblebleb:

Hey, is anybody else thinking that a whole discussion about (a) going light, and (b) multi-day trips and forecasts, and © both at the same time, is just waiting to happen here...?

That discussion would never happen in this forum. The party line here is Twight says "Light is right. Pass the Gu." People who pack for contingencies are gapers to be publicly ridiculed. [Roll Eyes]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Still, I think Twight says use Synthetic...

 

The thing with Twights philosophy is that you either use it all out, or don't use it at all.

 

We would have been ok if we had remembered to buy Gu before we left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not me Attitude!!! You "going light" nutz are accidents waiting to happen!!! [Roll Eyes]

 

To those guys planning on Dragontail in another thread, take two damn ropes! Take two damn 70m ropes!! And make sure you use a freakin' double fishermans!!!! And that other guy...what kind of a numbnutz are you?!!???? [Roll Eyes] Just pack yer freakin' boots AND ice axe AND unless you wanna die before you even get to the climb wear some GODDAMNED crampons!!!!! And for that other guy, Prussik Peak is f**kin crowded as the goddamned smog inspection station on the 31st!!! Bring a big ol' book (A LONG ONE!!!!) or you'll be sorry. Plus, that East Ledges "Descent" Route (you might "descend" farther and faster than you think!!!!) is much easier to do if you have yer crampons to put on when you come to the heather parts. And as for Sharkfin Col....c'mon you guys!!!!! bring two GODDAMNED ropes, and fat ones too!!! Do you really wanna DIE because you were too light to not go light!!!! Sheesh, what a bunch of numbnutz'z. No wonder so many people have bit it this year in the mountains. Bring your 11th essentials or you WILL DIE and your momma will cry [Frown] .

 

And Lambone, buy (or steal from VW) a goddamned altimeter and GPS and bring two sets of extra batteries next time. Plus a spare phone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Dwayner:

Several observations:

 

You should have done this on Mt. Rainier instead. Then Big Lou would have scrambled up there in half an hour, thrown all three of you in his giant Jansport expedition pack (plus your gear). I understand that he carries a lighted wood stove, a snack bar and a soda machine in there so you would have been O.K. In fact, he would have had to talk you into leaving the pack when he reached the Paradise Parking Lot. He would have set you down gently in the Glacier Lounge in the Paradise Inn, where he'd round up some Irish Coffee for the group and let you know that "The Mountain was really showin' off!" with the weather and such. You'll offer to pay for the coffee's but Lou will wink and say..."Don't worry about it...the mountains don't care."

Yup...you should been on Rain-Dawg.

 

Also...did you and the girls use blue-bags? If so, you'd better have hiked them out or handed them to the first friendly ranger. (You're lucky you weren't with "pope"...he'd have gone on top of your sleeping bag if there was so much as a small breeze outside the tent.)

 

Oy! It should never happen twice! I'll agree with RURP...your nasty self needs a big ole beer and a burger!
[chubit][big Drink]

 

- Dwayner

Dude, that was post 666...coincidence? Dwayner is the devil! [big Grin]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by fleblebleb:

 

Hey, is anybody else thinking that a whole discussion about (a) going light, and (b) multi-day trips and forecasts, and © both at the same time, is just waiting to happen here...?

 

Bring on the spray
[big Grin]

Flebby, you said it yourself....bring on the spray! Ya think this crowd wants to have a serious conversation about anything ??? [laf]

 

They'd even have to change the name of the board, maybe to something like cascadecli......oh, wait, uh, never mind. [Moon]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And SIMULCLIMBING!!! c'maaaaawwwwwwwwwwwn! Talk about Darwin. Sheesh. [Roll Eyes] You guys are gonna travel fast. You're gonna be in a goddamned time machine....straight til the end of your life!!!! Why is everybody in such a goddamned hurry anyway [Confused][Confused]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by chucK:

Not me Attitude!!! You "going light" nutz are accidents waiting to happen!!!
[Roll Eyes]

 

And Lambone, buy (or steal from VW) a goddamned altimeter and GPS and bring two sets of extra batteries next time. Plus a spare phone.

Since when do gym climbers use altimeters? [big Grin]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by chucK:

Not me Attitude!!! You "going light" nutz are accidents waiting to happen!!!
[Roll Eyes]

 

To those guys planning on Dragontail in another thread, take two damn ropes! Take two damn 70m ropes!! And make sure you use a freakin' double fishermans!!!! And that other guy...what kind of a numbnutz are you?!!????
[Roll Eyes]
Just pack yer freakin' boots AND ice axe AND unless you wanna die before you even get to the climb wear some GODDAMNED crampons!!!!! And for that other guy, Prussik Peak is f**kin crowded as the goddamned smog inspection station on the 31st!!! Bring a big ol' book (A LONG ONE!!!!) or you'll be sorry. Plus, that East Ledges "Descent" Route (you might "descend" farther and faster than you think!!!!) is much easier to do if you have yer crampons to put on when you come to the heather parts. And as for Sharkfin Col....c'mon you guys!!!!! bring two GODDAMNED ropes, and fat ones too!!! Do you really wanna DIE because you were too light to not go light!!!! Sheesh, what a bunch of numbnutz'z. No wonder so many people have bit it this year in the mountains. Bring your 11th essentials or you WILL DIE and your momma will cry
[Frown]
.

 

And Lambone, buy (or steal from VW) a goddamned altimeter and GPS and bring two sets of extra batteries next time. Plus a spare phone.

Exactly. [Wink]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've gone back and forth feeling agitation by some peoples reactions (particularly the feminist comments.) and agreeing with others.

 

I can see valid points in nearly everyones posts (other than the feminist comments...) And i'd like to say, Lambone, i've never met ya but am very glad you and your harem [Wink] are alive and well. I'm sorry that this sh*t happened, and that you are being put front and center. I'm happy that people (very much myself included) are using this as a learning experience... i'm frustrated at some of the mudslinging.

 

My take, as a female ... and as a climber that goes climbing with almost exclusively her boyfriend (see post entitled "LETS GO CLIMBING!") is that Lambone had personal feelings involved and made a decision, and a wise one. Even if he didn't pull the c-phone out and dial the digits. Would all you wankers (as you seem to enjoy calling yourselves) rather be sitting around saying "Too bad Lambone hadn't had his cel phont..." or Matt having to deal with someone elses, less experienced, death. Who's to judge him, were you in that exact situation?? It's easy to point fingers, isn't it.

 

And to think, Matt, you didn't scare your fiance away, either. I think you took a difficult situation and made the best desicion available.

 

But, i do have to ask. Who pays for the rescue? Lambone, you slapped with the sightseeing bill?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll lay it on the line and say no PNW climber will ever be charged for their rescue. And that's the way it should be in this gaper's opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read recently that they won't charge for rescues because that if they did, people would be more likely to wait until it was too late to save them to call. Someone would think about a five-figure rescue bill, and not call until they were severely hypothermic or in a panic, and wind up being carried out in a rubber bag. Who pays for that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

exactly. remember, in Oregon, ORS chapter 401 provides authorization for collecting climber rescue-related expenses. Never used since its inception, but it's there. This HC lover keeps AAC insurance close at hand, though chance of prosecution is remote.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is RURP:

Lhotsedreemer says:

 

"I can see valid points in nearly everyones posts (other than the feminist comments...)"

 

RURP say: Heed the feminist comments; most women are blind and irrational to them. Maybe there is something valid behind them.

 

"And i'd like to say, Lambone, i've never met ya but am very glad you and your harem are alive and well."

 

RURP say: This is the first time I've encountered a "feminist" using the word "harem" in such a context. [Roll Eyes]

 

"I'm sorry that this sh*t happened, and that you are being put front and center."

 

RURP say: The * in "sh*t" doesn't disguise your preference for this word. If you want to avoid using such a word, substitute it with something else. Mr. L-bone has actually more of a spine than I ever suspected; throwing this out in front of the hungry dogs of criticism so we can all learn a few lessons.

 

"i'm frustrated at some of the mudslinging."

 

RURP say: Welcome to cc.com, where Lambone, and even RURP, are regular slingers.

 

"My take, as a female ... and as a climber that goes climbing with almost exclusively her boyfriend (see post entitled "LETS GO CLIMBING!") is that Lambone had personal feelings involved and made a decision, and a wise one."

 

RURP say: Wise one? Heavily debatable...but what happened, happened. He's down and alive with his woefully inexperienced followers.

 

"Even if he didn't pull the c-phone out and dial the digits. Would all you wankers (as you seem to enjoy calling yourselves) rather be sitting around saying "Too bad Lambone hadn't had his cel phont..." or Matt having to deal with someone elses, less experienced, death. Who's to judge him, were you in that exact situation?? It's easy to point fingers, isn't it."

 

RURP say: The finger of the more experienced often points to a greater truth. We can judge him as he can judge us! That's how we learn.

 

"And to think, Matt, you didn't scare your fiance away, either. I think you took a difficult situation and made the best desicion available."

 

RURP say: I think you can look at it the other way: maybe the fiancé should be scaring Lambone!!! Good luck, Mr. Lambone!!!!

 

"But, i do have to ask. Who pays for the rescue? Lambone, you slapped with the sightseeing bill?"

 

RURP say: Make the girls pay...they made the phone call. The rescue guys offered Lambone a ride...he took it. He probably wasn't smiling as he flew over the glorious scenery!!

 

RURP has spoken.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right 'Tude, "light is right is Twight". Let me go look up his words of wisdom on three day carryover rambles on the standard routes of PNW volcanos, with scenic summit camping for the views etc.

 

...

 

Dang. Can't really find anything in that book that applies. Wait! Except maybe the title, which seems to imply that the gospel is a bit irrelevant to Lammy's adventure? Hmm...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny to have Twight's book right next to freedom of the hills in REI. the guy is a machine, he pulls off rescues high on Denali, and his advice is right on....for climbing the stuff he climbs. He makes that clear in the book but I bet 85% of the readers are just starting out and don't need to break apart a whisperlite and share a pack to get up mt adams south.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i bet most, if not all, of us if given a choice between using a cell phone and hypothermia/frostbite/death would choose the phone. not that i think lambone's group was close to death, but i think a phone is a valid back up instrument to have in the pack.

 

anyway, thanks to lambone for going out on a limb and sharing all the details publicly like this. i agree with your decision given the situation, and i'm glad we all have the opportunity to learn from it directly, instead of speculating "what if".

 

cheers mate. [big Drink]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad everyone is ok but the string is pretty hypocritical. If this were just another newspaper article everyone would be slammin' the climbers for going up in bad weather and being lame-o for doing the dial-o-rescue gig with no injuries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×