Free soloing

[cracked]

Immature reckless dangerous decking soloists.

[Squid]

damn free soloing paget-top thief!

[Dru]

free soloing is fun.

 

You will never be able to climb fast in the mountains unless you accept you will be effectively soloing for much of the time. When my best lead grade was 10a I made a point of freesoloing a few 10as. Now I lead harder than that but I probably only free solo 5.8. To each their own. I haven't felt like soloing much the last few years but would like to get back into this more.

 

John Gill wrote a great opinion piece once about meditation and freesoloing. I know he now practices freesoloing on generally moderate routes with avoidable harder cruxes - what he called "option soloing"- in preference to his 60's bouldering antics.

[EWolfe]

Opportunist 8b:

[ashw_justin]

And, as I said before, intentionally trying to distract a soloist while they are climbing is reckless and hostile and will hopefully get you beaten to a pulp.

 

I let this one slip by, but you are totally misinterpreting my post...

 

I only said that bit to illustrate a point, I guess you are all too chronically short-fused to recognize sarcasm. Dude I would never deliberately do anything to try to make another climber fall... c'mon I am not that sick!

 

The point I was making is that you all say free soloing doesn't affect other climbers, well, what if I am a talkative climber? (not that I am...) Just my style of climbing, if you don't like it, you can just leave, because I'm not affecting anyone else, am I?

 

The point is when you are free soloing you should be aware of the fact that you are indeed affecting those around you. Perhaps only psychologically, sure.

 

Why would you think that just because you are climbing without a rope, you are the only person in existence?

Edited April 20, 2004 by ashw_justin

[Alpinfox]

 

Sorry I didn't detect your sarcasm. It's a hard thing to convey with the written word. Perhaps we should use [sarcasm] [/sarcasm]?

 

Anyway, I don't think you should get so upset about someone climbing near you in a style that you don't appreciate. Just treat them like you would treat any other climber leading a route; e.g. be quiet, don't talk to them (unless they talk to you), don't throw your ropes down on them, allow them to pass you if it's safe, etc.

 

Cheers.

[ashw_justin]

Sorry I didn't detect your sarcasm. It's a hard thing to convey with the written word. Perhaps we should use [sarcasm] [/sarcasm]?

 

Anyway, I don't think you should get so upset about someone climbing near you in a style that you don't appreciate. Just treat them like you would treat any other climber leading a route; e.g. be quiet, don't talk to them (unless they talk to you), don't throw your ropes down on them, allow them to pass you if it's safe, etc.

 

Cheers.

 

Man my attempts at dry/subtle humor have been getting me in trouble lately... Some guy even sent me insults via PM this time

 

But to keep the thread going I still want to know how close to their limit some people are willing to onsight freesolo (this is the kind of freesoloing I worry about). I mean if you can lead 5.10's, and the guidebook says it's a 5.9, do you say "what the hell" and jump on it? Do you do it in front of young children?

[billcoe]

Justin: it is a valid question, which I think unfortunatly more than likely has no one answer.

 

 

Interesting story happened to some friends of mine though: they were approx 150 straight up, on a stance big enough for 2.

 

Smoking a doobie.

 

Up free-solos another guy I know, says hi to them, and to their astonishment asks if they would mind if he puffed some. They fork over the smoke, long drag and a couple of healthy coughs later, up he goes past the easy 10a crux. Directly above them. Unroped.

 

Moral of the story:

Sometimes it's better not to ask or think about it. Just take another drag and let it go.

 

Bill

[lancegranite]

 

 

I love to solo. My work demands that I climb unroped for most of the day. The last thing I need is someone telling me what to do.

Just like you.

[Off_White]

Sorry I didn't detect your sarcasm. It's a hard thing to convey with the written word. Perhaps we should use [sarcasm] [/sarcasm]?

 

Too true, lots of disagreements around here come from this basic fact of bulletin board life. Its all to easy to read what someone says but not understand what they mean. Bereft of tone of voice and body language, the graemlins are supposed to be a stand in for those other ways to interpret what someone says.

[ashw_justin]

 

I love to solo. My work demands that I climb unroped for most of the day. The last thing I need is someone telling me what to do.

Just like you.

 

Man, chill out, I'm not going to come looking for you so I can "tell you what to do"... Like I said, I'm only going to say something if I think you're being an idiot

 

You're not an idiot climber are you? Then don't worry about it!

[ashw_justin]

I mean, if you don't want my punkass bothering you while you free solo, then you don't have to do it right next to me, there's rock all over the place if you don't feel comfortable climbing with a jackass like me around...

 

Ok I should quit being a prick about this, but I find this mentality that we all need to bow down in reverence and respect for the 'most pure and highest evolution of rock climbing' kind of offensive. It's just climbing without a rope, regardless of how it makes you feel (and I admit it makes you feel pretty damned awesome).

Edited April 20, 2004 by ashw_justin

[lancegranite]

Read my post again, it said nothing about "you".

My point is I don't think you like anybody telling you what to do.

Just like me.

 

I love to solo. My work demands that I climb unroped for most of the day. The last thing I need is someone telling me what to do.

 

And for the record, My work is nowhere near a rock, I work as a high steel rigger (think ironworker, but different)

[dberdinka]

Soloing is an intensly personal experience. To do it safely requires being incredibly truthful with yourself.

 

Ultimately I wonder about the motivations of any climber who solos in front of other groups, particularly in a crag atmosphere. Maybe if you a true zen-master-soloist it won't occur, but for the rest of us I'd bet that at some level our ego gets involved and we begin to make comparisons between our own performances and those of everyone else around us.

 

If your choices are being influenced by that then you're no longer being completely honest with yourself. That's bad-style with potentially significant consequences. If your soloing you want to be alone right? So go do it where the presence of other people won't mess with your mind.

[whirlwind]

Soloing is an intensly personal experience. To do it safely requires being incredibly truthful with yourself.

 

If your soloing you want to be alone right? So go do it where the presence of other people won't mess with your mind.

 

most definatly

[ken4ord]

Soloing is an intensly personal experience. To do it safely requires being incredibly truthful with yourself.

 

So go do it where the presence of other people won't mess with your mind.

 

I don't think it is about being alone. Some of my more memorable experiences soloing are in the Tetons with my friends. You know going out on a nice day with chalk bag, shoes, some food, water. What attracts me to soloing is the uninhibited movement. I really enjoy soloing and it doesn't bother me to carry on conversations with people on the crag. Though sometime they look at me like I am nuts, because I am "not completely focused", though I am.

 

As for Justin's answer, how hard or how close to my limit, I would say in general two grades down from my leading level. With that said though, it really fluctuates some days you are on, some you are not. You gotta be able to know, just like when you are leading with a rope, some days you can push it and other days you are better not pushing it. In the end though whether you are driving to the crag, soloing or TRing, shit happens, keeping it from happening to you, you need to be able to assess yourself, the conditions, the weather, whatever. Still you can't be 100% sure, except for one thing, you will die someday, when, who knows.

[RURP]

That first guy says this:

"So this weekend I was at 8 mile rock doing some TR'ing with some semi-climber friends and a guy asks if he can jump on Classic (we had it roped). I said sure, assuming he would put on a harness and ask for a belay, and he started free-soloing it. He obviously had the necessary skills and made it up without so much as a slip. I was not too pleased about his decision to climb unroped. I understand that he was taking his own risks, but who would have helped him if he fell? I just thought that it was a bit inconsiderate of him to put that on us."

 

Insight #1. He probably chose to solo Classic Crack because you were there and he wanted to feed his ego or raise his low self-esteem by demonstrating his excellence in front of you. This is not a new phenomenon. Back in the late 1970's, I recall being roped up and actually starting the moves of a climb in Joshua Tree when a well-known "celebrity soloist" [not Mr. Yablonski] jumps in front of me and proceeds to solo the climb. Rather than gaping in awe as he intended, we hurled insults at the arrogant sonofthebitch who could not even wait his turn, especially with plenty of great routes nearby. Later that week, we saw a couple of guys climbing "Bearded Cabbage" which requires a hand-traverse and reach to a vertical crack. The second guy following the route fell on the traverse and was dangling with the rope still going through several pieces of pro. Mr. "celebrity soloist", decides it is his time to demonstrate his superiority, and actually does the route, traversing over the guy dangling, and passing the gear and the belayer. Most un-cool that was.

 

Insight #2. I am an avid soloist and was even more so in the past. The rule is self-sufficiency. Don't climb in a way that will physically affect other people. Which means, don't climb anything that you might fall off of (because it is rude to hit people on the way down or on the ground) or cause someone to have to rescue you or save your life. You can expect that some people will not like it because they are either genuinely worried and/or cannot through their own experience understand that some people are capable of doing this relatively safely.

 

Insight #3. Some of the best soloing circuits in Leavenworth are bound to have people around. (Icicle Canyon, Peshastin Pinnacles, Castle Rock.) You can usually avoid routes with ropes hanging on them or just wait. (What...you got ants biting in your underpants or something?) Maybe on a multi-pitch climb you could ask people at a belay if you can climb through in front but buggering-in on a one-pitch top-rope climb seems a bit like grand-standing.

 

RURP has spoken.

[mattp]

RURP-

 

Your "insight" may be correct, but it could just be that the guy wanted to solo Classic Crack and some other climb nearby because he was familiar with them and he knew he could safely do so... If my memory is correct, there is nice flat ground there, so he may have thought these were particularly good for that reason. Also, it only takes a minute to scramble down there from the car; maybe the guy had only a few minutes to spare while on a grocery run from one of the campgrounds or something... or there may have been some other motivation not quite so obvious.

 

Just as you don't like my putting words into your mouth, don't assume you know what some "other guy" is thinking. Some poeople are motivated by goals other than showing off.

[chucK]

Insight #1. He probably chose to solo Classic Crack because you were there and he wanted to feed his ego or raise his low self-esteem by demonstrating his excellence in front of you.

 

Yeah, either that or the fact that Classic Crack has totally bomber jams, it's clean, it's easy to get to, and it's an easy walkoff. Not to mention that it's a "classic". Maybe that's why this guy decided to solo it?

 

Sometimes it isn't all about RURP. Sometimes just maybe a soloist climbs near RURP because RURP is on something the soloist wants to climb. Sometimes maybe it's not just to be near RURP.

 

Sometimes.

[RURP]

Quote by RURP: Insight #1. He probably chose to solo Classic Crack because you were there and he wanted to feed his ego or raise his low self-esteem by demonstrating his excellence in front of you.

 

Here comes Chuck:

"Yeah, either that or the fact that Classic Crack has totally bomber jams, it's clean, it's easy to get to, and it's an easy walkoff. Not to mention that it's a "classic". Maybe that's why this guy decided to solo it?"

 

RURP says: Nothing wrong with soloing it. It is a great soloing exercise up or down. The point is that the guy approaches it when someone else is using it.

 

Mr. Chuck again: "Sometimes it isn't all about RURP. Sometimes just maybe a soloist climbs near RURP because RURP is on something the soloist wants to climb. Sometimes maybe it's not just to be near RURP." Sometimes.

 

RURP responds: I am RURP, and it IS all about me just as it is all about that other guy. Go ahead and roll your eyes with that stupid animated icon like that girl who sat in front of you in 10th grade.

 

And now, Mr. MattP.: "Also, it only takes a minute to scramble down there from the car; maybe the guy had only a few minutes to spare while on a grocery run from one of the campgrounds or something... or there may have been some other motivation not quite so obvious."

 

RURP responds: maybe the guy already bought his groceries and was heading back to camp. Maybe he wanted to develop some sweat-induced pheremones before approaching the saucy babes featured in Leavenworth's vibrant and seductive nightlife. Maybe a member of his "audience" was an attractive female over whose nebische boyfriend he wished to demonstrate his virility expressed through daring. [Following the American male myth that she will leave her man immediately, shove him into the nearest tent and engage in primal activities.] In summary, "the rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain."

 

"Some poeople are motivated by goals other than showing off."

 

Maybe so, but not many that I have met in such a context. Wait your turn or do one of the numerous other routes in the area. As a soloist, I myself do not feel I have any sort of priority and you can ask and the guys with the top-rope have a right to say get lost.

 

RURP has spoken.

[assmonkey]

Maybe a member of his "audience" was an attractive female over whose nebische boyfriend he wished to demonstrate his virility expressed through daring.

 

Maybe he was trying to score with fenderfour?

[fenderfour]

Everybody wants the fatkid.

[rbw1966]

Squeal like a pig, boy!

[catbirdseat]

RURP is back in the house. Where have you been this past year? Gainful employment isn't always what it's cracked up to be.

[specialed]

Why would you think that just because you are climbing without a rope, you are the only person in existence?

 

Because you are.