Fall at Frenchman Coulee--

[das_Bull]

I am so sorry to hear this it breaks my heart. My heart goes out to the friends and family of Robert.

[tomtom]

Margareta and I had a long discussion this morning about the groups unverbalized decision to continue CPR on a victim that was so far gone. Perhaps every one of the climbers there silently felt as we did that maybe we should have just said a few words and let him go on in peace. But no one wants to be the one say "enough" when maybe, just maybe, there is a 1 in 1000-odd chance of the person coming back.

I recently went through CPR training again. The instructors told us to continue CPR until professional help arrives or until we could no longer continue. Sounds like you made the right decision.

[iain]

Unfortunately the odds say you are many times more likely to contract a disease performing cpr than doing any good at all. Not to say it's not worth doing, but it is pathetic in terms of helping somebody live.

[billcoe]

terrible news

 

Yup. There but for the grace of God goes I, ot you, or....

[slothrop]

Interesting, iain. I don't think any of the people giving CPR had a mask and latex gloves were in short supply.

[iain]

Yeah, something to think about. Not that most people would be able to stand there and do nothing.

[slothrop]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/163748_climber08ww.html

[jonah]

For anyone worried about the incidence of contracting diseases from CPR versus the potential payoff in life saving, I just have to say: do CPR. I worked for many years as an EMT in 2 states. I have personally seen CPR bring people back (at least when used in conjunction with advanced support that arrives quickly). As important (in many ways), I guarantee you will feel like shit for the rest of your life if you stand around feeling like you could have done something but did nothing because of a vague fear of contracting something. CPR is gross, but you are very unlikely to contract HIV or even hepatitis from doing it, especially considering that climbers are a generally low-risk population for most freaky blood borne diseases.

[Thinker]

In general, I agree.

 

However, a rock climber should consider the condition of his or her hands with respect to cuts and scrapes....we often have more open wounds on our hands than the average citizen. A plastic bag, a rain coat, the baggie your sandwich is in, or a laminated map can all act as a barrier if there's a concern...be creative and ask around for what's available.

[sobo]

Greetings cc.com-ers,

 

My name is Paul Soboleski, with Central Washington Mountain Rescue. Our unit has been asked by law enforcement to coodinate the investigation into this accident. We have already spoken with Mr. Peruchini's partners, but we would like to talk with those who witnessed the fall and provided immediate attention to Robert. If you feel that you would like to assist CWMR and Robert's family and friends, please email me at psoboleskiATg-oDOTcom

 

The following is information that has been approved for release at this time:

 

Local climber, Robert Peruchini, 41, of Ellensburg, WA. fell to his death while rock climbing at Frenchman Coulee near Vantage, WA. The accident occurred around 2 pm Sunday while he and a friend were rappelling on the Sunshine Wall. Mr. Peruchini suffered massive head and body trauma and

despite the efforts of first aiders and medics on scene he could not be revived. Central Washington Mountain Rescue is currently reviewing the accident. His mother and father of Kittitas and many local friends survive him.

[texplorer]

maybe you should change your autosig sobo

[sobo]

maybe you should change your autosig sobo

 

Did I say something stupid?

 

edited to remove autosig

Edited March 8, 2004 by sobo

[Winter]

On the CPR front, the standard in the backcountry is 30 minutes. If they aren't back or on advanced life by then, there is very little chance of saving any brain functions.

[icegirl]

strange as it sounds, I do carry a pocket mask and gloves in my pack (along with a bit of a first aid kit) I did so as a scuba instructor (oddly enough it's easier to give in water AR with a mask than without), and, well, I guess I've never really given thought to not carrying it.

[sobo]

strange as it sounds, I do carry a pocket mask and gloves in my pack (along with a bit of a first aid kit)...

 

As do I. I just always hope never to need it.

[Gary_Yngve]

I carry two pairs of latex gloves in my first-aid kit but not a CPR mask.

[iain]

If it concerns you, you can get these, they're pretty cool:

[NYC007]

Actually the climb was Pumping the Pigeon, a Chossy 5.8 Crack climb. The fall happened closer to 2:30.

[snoboy]

...

[jon]

Let's not have another 20 posts about whether you carry gloves or not, maybe someone can start a new thread on first aid supplies or something.

[kmurray]

I am a physician of 20 years, and in contrast to the other poster, I have never seen a victim of *traumatic* full arrest be resuscitated, other than in a trauma center, with a massive effort, and tremendous resources. This is totally different than a person who has a heart attack, or other medical process that causes a reversible stopping of the heart.

 

In the case of massive trauma, things like major arteries are torn apart, and CPR does NOT restore circulation in such cases.

 

Even in the cases of resuscitation in the trauma center, massive, irreversible brain damage is the usual result.

[Billygoat]

I agree, but you had to be there to know what you would do...

[mothboy88]

I am a physician of 20 years, and in contrast to the other poster, I have never seen a victim of *traumatic* full arrest be resuscitated, other than in a trauma center, with a massive effort, and tremendous resources. This is totally different than a person who has a heart attack, or other medical process that causes a reversible stopping of the heart.

 

In the case of massive trauma, things like major arteries are torn apart, and CPR does NOT restore circulation in such cases.

 

Even in the cases of resuscitation in the trauma center, massive, irreversible brain damage is the usual result.

 

I hace seen data presented at a Harborview trauma class stating that, when a trauma victim's heart stops in the first hour after the injury there is virtually no chance of saving the victim. Still, I would probably try to sustain CPR if professionals were coming just so the family and friends knew everything possible was done to save their loved one. This can be incredibly important for family members to know.

 

The keychain CPR mask can be bought at the UW medical bookstore and maybe at the main bookstore. Its got a one way valve on it and costs something like $10.

 

Also, I was taught that if you ever suspect HIV exposure to seek immediate medical care. Apparently a course of the drug AZT can sometimes eradicate the HIV virus from your body before the viral load get to be too high. The sooner you take it the better chance it has of working.

Though I would guess my chances of getting hepatitis from CPR would be much higher than HIV.

[Sabertooth]

A correction to my post yesterday. The rappel fall occured from off the far end of the sunshine wall, right above the point where the Millenium Wall and The Hen House Wall connect, not at The Tilted Pillars.

[fleblebleb]

CPR supplies thread

 

Nobody at Vantage had a mask or gloves, but there was blood everywhere.

 

CPR may not be of much help, but there is little else we can do for an unconscious person other than keep the airway open, right? If there isn't a physician on-site then nobody wants the responsibility of stopping before rescue personnel arrive. There isn't much of a decision to be made, and even if there is then chances are the choice is different in the immediate aftermath of an accident than during a bboard discussion.

 

I just ordered enough masks to permanently attach one into each of my climbing packs. I'll stash a pair of gloves with each mask. Futile or not, with a mask and gloves CPR at least doesn't pose a risk to the people that administer it. I think all of you guys should consider carrying this stuff.

 

Info about buying this stuff on the CPR supplies thread