Flagging

[max]

From reading a post in the Olympics form, I started to think about ribboning obscure routes.

 

Initially, I'd say it has it's place, but maybe should be left out of remote places. Then I realized remote is a relative term, and decided in respect of others, it just shouldn't be out there. Sucks though, cause it seems some sort of marking has really helped in past several times.

[snoboy]

I hate flagging. I have carried a lot of it out of the b/c. I mean really, who needs to flag a route along a ridge top?

 

I think it is maybe useful when an area starts to get a certain level of usage, and you want to limit damage to one trail, but otherwise, there is a trail to follow, or there are no trails.

 

Don't mind it if there is a really tricky section either.

[philfort]

I removed a bunch of flagging while hiking in along the south ridge of Kyes Pk (um, it's a ridge, good tread). On the way out, we suddenly ended up at a spot with cliffs all around and no way down - we probed around, but didn't see a way down. So eventually we backtracked and found where we had gone wrong. Turns out we had missed a hard-to-see 90 degree turn in the path, which, until that morning, had been marked with flagging

 

No, I didn't learn anything from this.

[J_Kirby]

Did ya build a couple of cairns at least?

[Dru]

flagging is for marking water bars, cutblock boundaries, road locations, heli drops, stream traverses D-lines and retention patches with not for taking the fun out of bushwacking

[bunglehead]

I find flagging extremely useful when reaching for holds.

[skyclimb]

It has helped me in the winter to navigate back to the truck in the woods. However, do your own flagging if its gonna be done, and then remove them on the way out. Or get a GPS

Fuck flaggin in the bush. You aren't gonna see them anyways, so why litter it up??

[tinsley]

I find flagging extremely useful when bowling.

[scrambled_legs]

Ever see really old flagging in the bush??? Didn't think so, cause it is made environmentally friendly. It breaks down quickly not to mention the deer love them. Its not littering its leaving candy for wildlife. And as far as impact goes, I've done a lot of new routes in dense bush and if you want one narrow skinny trail instead of spreadout figure eights everywhere, then bring some flagging.

 

All you enviro freaks picking up flag litter out there... if you want to really make a difference, do yourself a favor and bring a doggy bag for your crap.

[Alex]

scrambled_legs, yes, I've seen TONS of flagging in the bush. I worked as a wildlife biologist for 4 years and have seen enough flagging in the backwoods of Washington, Oregon, and Utah to fill a small stadium. Its not environmentally friendly, its made of plastic. It does break down after "a while", but so do beer cans, pop bottles, and Uranium 237.

 

Alex

[cracked]

Flagging?

[Jim]

Actually, as a practicing wildlife ecologist (25 yrs), biodegradable flagging is the norm these days, at least in enviornmental work. It should be the choice for any marking, but some folks don't know or want the vinyl stuff that does last a long time. The biodegradable stuff is easy to find, check out Foresty Suppliers or Ben Meadows catalogs.

[philfort]

No one's talking about removing flagging that is used for environmental work.

 

But why would someone use biodegradable flagging if they are trying to permanently mark a bushwhack? Doesn't that kind of defeat the point?

 

I see tons of flagging in the wilderness. I don't know if its biodegradable, but it's bright, orange, and doesn't belong.

[jhamaker]

I don't piss on the carpet, and I don't leave garbage in the woods for many of the same reasons.

[bremerton_john]

I posted the note in the Oly section that got this debate underway. Personally, I don't like flagging for much of the same reasons as others here have already stated. An interesting side note, though, is that apparently while the Park Service at Olympic used to have a policy of removing any flagging they found, they have since changed their minds and decided that keeping the flagging out there has the slim chance of helping someone lost get out, and saving the Park Service the hassle.

 

The rumor is that some Tacoma or Olympia Mountaineers are flagging a few bushwack approaches in the Olympics. Mt. Pershing is another example.

[Alpine_Tom]

The one climb I know about that benefits from flagging is Whitehorse Glacier. The first hour or so is just vertical bushwhacking, not particularly remote or scenic. Following the bits of flagging, when you can locate them, does make it easier. And on the descent, it can make the difference from being cliffed out and just dirty/miserable/scratched up.

[archenemy]

No one's talking about removing flagging that is used for environmental work.

 

But why would someone use biodegradable flagging if they are trying to permanently mark a bushwhack? Doesn't that kind of defeat the point?

 

I see tons of flagging in the wilderness. I don't know if its biodegradable, but it's bright, orange, and doesn't belong.

 

For some reason, this reminds me of the arguements people have against bolts. They are ugly, not natural, blah blah blah. Wa wa wa.

[snoboy]

At least bolts are useful... and usually more pemanent than flagging.

 

The thing with flagging is it only lasts a season or so before it falls apart and blows around. I don't leave garbage in the b/c, so why should I leave flagging? [Other than the exceptions already noted]

[archenemy]

Good point.

[Stefan]

I don't put up flagging....but I sure like to see flagging when I am out in the bush -- It makes me feel good to see that some other stupid fool was in the same damned god forsaken place as I was.

[dberdinka]

I once flagged a path into Chamois Peak in the Anderson River Group. There was definitely a best path to take which we only figured out after our first attempt. I flagged it heavily when we went in a second time.

 

I figured should the route ever become popular one well defined path was better than 20 vague ones.

 

Years later I walked by the start of that approach on the way to Les Cornes. The alder had grown incredibly thick and took several minutes just to find the first (very Large) piece of flagging I had used to mark the start.

 

The road is now closed, the route is rarely climbed and I imagine all that flagging is now buried in pine needles and dirt. Probably best to just leave everyone to there own bushwacking.

[scrambled_legs]

scrambled_legs, yes, I've seen TONS of flagging in the bush. I worked as a wildlife biologist for 4 years and have seen enough flagging in the backwoods of Washington, Oregon, and Utah to fill a small stadium. Its not environmentally friendly, its made of plastic. It does break down after "a while", but so do beer cans, pop bottles, and Uranium 237.

 

Alex

 

I guess the key word would be old... as in break down quickly like toilet paper. Whenever we replanted a section of a cutblock that was more than two years old, all the flagging would be gone. I guess there is the possibility that some of you took it upon yourselves to hike all over swampy cutblocks to fullfill your duties in removing tape. But if not, I guess the stuff just dissapears.

[scrambled_legs]

I don't piss on the carpet, and I don't leave garbage in the woods for many of the same reasons.

 

but do you piss in the woods, or heaven forbid shit in the woods and not pick it up after you???

 

Flagging isn't garbage. It is used in a variety of situations to protect the forests. Replanting new forests, surveying growing forests, marking single trails, monitoring wildlife. The whole key here is that it dissapears after it serves its purpose. You see the bright orange flagging because its new... hence the bright orange. Old flagging doesn't exist, just go to a replanted cutblock. Any replant will have had at least 50 rolls of tape laid out all over it. Where did it all go???

 

And to all of you not carrying out your dogs and your own shit, shame on you!!! this is why we now have to use water filters you filthy swine!! How would you like it if I shit in your backyard!

[Bogen]

Bury your shit, don't piss near open water. If you want to return on the same trail, or someone is following, flag it- it beats the way we marked trails for the first few hundred years we were bushwhacking in this country. On the other hand, if you don't now what you are flagging, don't. Like a bolted route on a climb, if you flag you are presuming to set pro, or a trail for who knows how many or what quality of hikers/climbers to come. Do so responsibly.

[scrambled_legs]

But who really flags just to flag??? Are there really people out there that are flaging for no purpose?? Do people feel they are decorating trees with orange ribbons as though it were Christmas time??? Its not litter!!!