Double Rope Simul-Rapelling

[ClimbingH]

Besides the obvious; being faster than going one by one, but with the possibility of jamming the knot, are there any other advantages/disadvantages?

 

Saw it done only once by a couple of climbers....Is it a safe technique?

 

Thanks

[catbirdseat]

I watched some people doing it off of Martha Tower at Frenchman's Coulee "for fun".

[iain]

would be fun on one of those wingate sandstone arches

[Dru]

this is kinda tangential but did you notice on the main index page the title of this thread shows up as "Re: Double Rope Simul-Rape..."

[ClimbingH]

this is kinda tangential but did you notice on the main index page the title of this thread shows up as "Re: Double Rope Simul-Rape..."

 

Jesus, no!!!

Is this better?

[high_on_rock]

I simul-rap often, it has it’s elements of risk, but so does much of climbing. If anchors are questionable, don’t do it. If one person “fails”, both can be lost; if one raps off the end of the rope, both may be lost; so make sure you trust your partner and communicate. Never simul-rap directly off of webbing or other soft gear, as it might saw while under pressure. A buddy and I once rapped 14 pitches in one hour. Know and understand the risks, then make a personal choice.

[sobo]

It's a great way to get down in a hurry (rain, lightnig storm, etc.). I've only used it in those instances, except once or twice beforehand with my regular partners to practice it. As others have noted, there are risks. Communicate!

[Dru]

yeah and if you spell rappel the proper way you never have that problem

[Lambone]

We did it once in Red Rocks to get off of Chrymson Chrysalis. We had four people, -two seperate rope teams with one rope each. You need to ropes to rap off, so our plan was to rap together. Rather than wait for 4 people to rappel 6 or 7 times, we simo rapped.

 

It worked just fine, just be sure to put bigger knots in the end and be more careful/controled.

 

[Jason_Martin]

There's nothing wrong with this technique. I've used it a few times for this and that... The main thing is to make sure that both people are weighting the rope simultaniously.

 

Jason

[ClimbingH]

Thanks all for responding.

 

There's nothing wrong with this technique. I've used it a few times for this and that... The main thing is to make sure that both people are weighting the rope simultaniously.

Jason

 

Not even if there is a great weight differential between the two climbers?

[RuMR]

Thanks all for responding.

 

There's nothing wrong with this technique. I've used it a few times for this and that... The main thing is to make sure that both people are weighting the rope simultaniously.

Jason

 

Not even if there is a great weight differential between the two climbers?

No difference between a climber and a belayer right? Enough friction through the anchor that it shouldn't be a problem and you can just stick the light climber on the "knot" side of the anchor...so the fat guy can't pull the rope/knot back through the anchor...

[Bug]

I'm the fat guy. After I hit the ground and fall uncouncious, the skinny guy will be at the nercy of my rappel device. Chances are, we will both be unconcious.

Everything that can go wrong will.

[lancegranite]

Another simul technique:

I have used this for assisted rappel...

Take your cordelette and tie it into a two point configuration.

Tie one leg really long,one short.

Now clip the ATC into the master point. Each climber clips into one of the legs.

Both people descend at the same time, using a common ATC.

The stronger partner takes the long leg, as she will control the ropes and reach the anchors first.

She builds the anchor and clips in, then, lowers her partner to the anchors. The use of prussiks to back up the system is a must.

If your partner is injured, make the legs a little more even, as the strong partner may have to stablize the injured mid rappel.

This also works well with a haulbag, a bucket of holds, or tool bag for rap bolting.

[catbirdseat]

Sounds interesting, but what if there isn't enough friction on the ATC. Seems like a biner brake would make more sense.

[lancegranite]

True, this is not the best technique to use with skinny ropes. Prussiks are important.

One way to increase friction is to reeve the ropes.

Clip another locker into the master point,so that it hangs below the loaded ATC.

Then clip a locker into your belay loop.

Take the brake end of the rope and run it thru the locker on your Harness, UP thru the locker on the master point.

The ropes should now be hanging as they normally do.

The friction caused by this will ease the sting in free hanging or heavy rappels.

In my work as a rigger , we often reeve to lower heavy stuff. The beauty in this, is that the system is flexable.

 

ROUGH SKETCH OF UNREEVED SYSTEM

Edited December 19, 2003 by lancegranite

[fern]

if Bug clips himself to RuMR then the weight difference won't cause a splat.

 

I think somebody already posted this, but it is still funny.

[EWolfe]

If you are climbing at the Needles in South Dakota, it's often the only way to get off. Bone up on it if you are ever planning to go there.

[Thinker]

If you are climbing at the Needles in South Dakota, it's often the only way to get off. Bone up on it if you are ever planning to go there.

 

freaked me out the first time there. we had to simul rap off opposite sides of a rock 'ridge' that prevented us from hearing or seeing each other. I think we both stood on the ground for about 5 minutes before unhooking, just to make sure the other was actually on the ground and not hanging out on a ledge for some reason. pretty cool tho.

[Jason_Martin]

I've used the technique lancegranite is referring to many times. A lot of people call it "the spider" or an assortment of other names. It is a good rock rescue rappel technique, but as lancegranite indicated there must always be a autoblock backup.

 

One issue that often comes up with simul-rappelling is the fact that it is often done on extremely skinny ropes with little friction. There is an excellent technique that a friend -- who has written about it as a tech tip for a forthcoming issue of "Climbing" -- showed me just the other day to increase the friction when rappelling on super-skinny lines.

 

Here is the technique in a nutshell.

 

1) Extend the rappel away from your harness by girth-hitching a shoulder length sling through your belay loop. Put your ATC into the end of the sling on a locking biner and set it up for a rappel. This places the rappel about eighteen inches away from your harness.

 

2) Take a very short slung cord and put a friction hitch into it below your ATC. Clip this into your belay loop with a locking biner. This will act as an autoblock.

 

3) Clip a non-locking biner into your leg-loop.

 

4) Clip a non-locking biner into the rope ABOVE your ATC.

 

5) Now this is where the rope that you are rappelling on will go. The rope goes through the ATC, down through your autoblock, then through the carabiner in your leg-loop. It is then redirected up through the carabiner above your ATC and then back down to your break hand.

 

When rappelling, one hand will move the autoblock down, while the other holds the rope beneath the second redirect biner above your ATC. This system creates a whole lot of extra friction so that rappelling on skinny ropes is not a scary affair.

 

Give it a try and see how you like it!

 

Jason

[rbw1966]

An easier way to create more friction whilst using skinny ropes is to just add another biner to the atc. If thats still not enough friction add a biner to your leg loop and re-direct the brake end of the rope through that biner too. I've never encountered a need for more friction than that and I've rapped off 6mm cord.

[dylan_taylor]

Tons of ways to skin a cat.

Using an autobloc or adding a 'biner to your atc are both effective at adding friction and ought to be used more often, since the average preferred rope diameter seems to be steadily shrinking, but the inner gap size of vertually every belay-rappel device out there is not.

 

My favorite technique is the one that Jason suggested, because it is simple (far simpler to do than to explain). It's just another version of re-directing or reeving theme, and it is really easy to build or dismantle mid-rappel. Its also smooth, doesn't twist the rope, and is easy to tie off. If I'm simul-rappeling and I get the skinny floss, I rappel-z or redirect the brake rope every time. And if I need to stop and de-tangle or pendulum to a station, I can build my autobloc and go hands free.

[thelawgoddess]

it is way fun. have done it down the length of condorphamine to escape the impending darkness. used carabiner brake belay to keep the speed manageable.

[mattp]

I agree with all the posts that indicate it CAN be safe, and it may even speed things up a bit (I've done it for that reason and I've also rapped from the top of one of the South Dakota Needles, where it was "necessary"), but in general I'd say that it probably does not save much time to simultaneously rappel with your partner. I know that in my case, anyway, a lot more time is spent setting up anchors and pulling/throwing the rope than is spent actually on rappel -- particularly on steep terrain. Also, I tend to rap a lot faster, and to take less time starting and ending the rap, if I am doing it myself rather than "in tandem." For these and other reasons, some of the apparent speed and efficiency from having both partners rap at the same time is lost because they both rap more slowly and cautiously.

 

Like I said, I've done the simul-thing when in a hurry. However, I find it much more of an advantage when doing low-angled raps. In that situation, it is impossible to throw the ropes all the way down, and a single rappeller has great difficulty sorting out all the tangles. You can save a big headache by having one climber look out for one rope, while the other looks out for the other (it helps to throw one rope slightly right, and the other slightly left). In this situation you may save a LOT of time and trouble by having two climbers rap together. Just be sure you are communicating well and hope to hell you aren't going to run into some "snafu" on the way down.

 

One thing to note is that your "rescue" or "repair" options may be more limited if someone has trouble while doing the simulrap thing than if the snafu develops while only one climber is on rap and the other is at a safe anchor. The danger of having one let go or rap off the end of the rope or something while the other is still on the simulrap rope is obvious.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Good reasons for it:

 

It's fun!

 

It's training for partner issues.

 

It is faster if you practice it enough.

 

Because you can.