debate fodder: lots of new climbers

[cracked]

Rudy, he's trolling you...it's not worth it. Logic has nothing in the face of religion. Be glad there are few jackasses of this magnitude around.

[Dru]

[JayB]

jkassidy said:

JayB said:

jkassidy said:

Bolts, crowds, crowded campgrounds.....they seem to conspicuously coexist, almost symbiotically. When we take the macho aspect out of climbing, when we make climbing something that becomes about as dangerous and adventurous as playing volleyball without a helmet....of course it will have greater appeal. When leading difficult rock (something that used to require guts, skill and great judgment) is demystified by a trail of bolts, and when we let today's climbers feel as though they're really doing something that is parallel to the old, heroic 5th-class leading, then new climbers will inundate our cliffs in search of that heroic, sharp-end feeling. It's just one, big happy illusion.....and I'm all for Quixotic fantasies, just not when the result is crowding and ugly bolt trails.

 

Back when I was young people who made such statements about the cowardice of others were not afraid to use their real names while doing so. Golden Age indeed.

 

If it weren't for the juvenile language and obscene images of perverted toads one encounters on this site, I could probably post from my workplace using my real name and not feel embarassed about it.

 

Whatever. You can post from libraries, kiosks, friend's computers, etc, etc, etc and even then it's not like you'd have to re-register to disclose your true identity. All it takes is typing "my name is________." Strange posture coming from the apostle of boldness.

[RuMR]

cracked said:

Rudy, he's trolling you...it's not worth it. Logic has nothing in the face of religion. Be glad there are few jackasses of this magnitude around.

 

Damn freakin' hook stuck in my lip!!! SHoot...

[pope]

RuMR said:

Hey...i've managed to hold off on this thread for a WHOLE day...but when he starts that crap about how bold the old were, he's full of it...yeah, there were a few of them, just like there are a few of them now...

 

I started around the same time as he did...and there were just a few really bold climbers then as now...so he's pissing up a pole as far as that whole "back in the day...crap"...

 

Not everybody was bold, but many more people (compared to today) respected the idea that you deal with the cards you're dealt. If the wall doesn't have sufficient pro for your likings, you walk away and don't leave a mess. I have equal respect for the 5.5 limber and the 5.12 climber, whether or not they choose to do bold lines, and whether or not they get in over their heads now and then. I RESPECT CLIMBERS WHO ATTEMPT TO CLIMB IN GOOD STYLE AT WHATEVER LEVEL, WITHOUT LEAVING A MESS.

[mattp]

JKassidy -

Did you climb Mount Rainier in the winter in the '70's? The checkout process took over an hour. Did you go to the Climber's ranch in the '70's -- during the climbing season there wasn't even room to pull into the parking lot. At the same time, there were permits required, zone restrictions, and all kinds of regulations to comply with in the Tetons. Did you wait in line to climb The Nose in 1979? It took three days. Did you visit the 'Gunks in 1970? Parking was terrible AND YOU HAD TO BUY A CLIMBING PERMIT. These magical days before sport climbing when there were no crowds and no permit problems did not exist - at least not in your climbing lifetime or mine.

 

There are more cars in I-5 during rush hour now, and you have to have a zone permit to park in the Capitol Hill neighborhood. Are you going to blame that on sport climbing, too?

[pope]

RuMR said:

jkassidy said:

JayB said:

jkassidy said:

Bolts, crowds, crowded campgrounds.....they seem to conspicuously coexist, almost symbiotically. When we take the macho aspect out of climbing, when we make climbing something that becomes about as dangerous and adventurous as playing volleyball without a helmet....of course it will have greater appeal. When leading difficult rock (something that used to require guts, skill and great judgment) is demystified by a trail of bolts, and when we let today's climbers feel as though they're really doing something that is parallel to the old, heroic 5th-class leading, then new climbers will inundate our cliffs in search of that heroic, sharp-end feeling. It's just one, big happy illusion.....and I'm all for Quixotic fantasies, just not when the result is crowding and ugly bolt trails.

 

Back when I was young people who made such statements about the cowardice of others were not afraid to use their real names while doing so. Golden Age indeed.

 

If it weren't for the juvenile language and obscene images of perverted toads one encounters on this site, I could probably post from my workplace using my real name and not feel embarassed about it.

 

So then, how do you feel about incessant Richard Simmons postings, and Sport climbers are gay posting. This is very offensive in a two-fold manner: 1.) you are insinuating that something is wrong w/ being a homosexual, and 2.) you are then using that little "factoid" to then slam sportclimbing

 

You are a hypocrite if you are who i think you are. Your previous postings point to the fact that you can get right down to the level of JayB and others...So don't play that weak card...

 

You are insinuating that I am Dwayner? I am not. Dwayner has not posted here since he was arbitrarily banned. I know this for a fact.

 

I challenge you to find one statement (made by Dwayner) that sport climbers are gay. I don't think you'll find it.

[RuMR]

jkassidy said:

RuMR said:

Hey...i've managed to hold off on this thread for a WHOLE day...but when he starts that crap about how bold the old were, he's full of it...yeah, there were a few of them, just like there are a few of them now...

 

I started around the same time as he did...and there were just a few really bold climbers then as now...so he's pissing up a pole as far as that whole "back in the day...crap"...

 

Not everybody was bold, but many more people (compared to today) respected the idea that you deal with the cards you're dealt. If the wall doesn't have sufficient pro for your likings, you walk away and don't leave a mess. I have equal respect for the 5.5 limber and the 5.12 climber, whether or not they choose to do bold lines, and whether or not they get in over their heads now and then. I RESPECT CLIMBERS WHO ATTEMPT TO CLIMB IN GOOD STYLE AT WHATEVER LEVEL, WITHOUT LEAVING A MESS.

 

Now that is fair statement...I guess we disagree on the "leaving a mess" portion though...you won't convince me of the errors of bolting at certain areas and leaving others as traditional...Going to France changed my mind on this...it also redefined what I considered "bold"...there are many many bolted "sport climbs" that are quite "engaging" over there and these lines will demand your respect...

 

I still think its chickenpoop to post as an anonymous person...i'll say what i'm posting to anyones face...

[RuMR]

jkassidy said:

RuMR said:

jkassidy said:

JayB said:

jkassidy said:

Bolts, crowds, crowded campgrounds.....they seem to conspicuously coexist, almost symbiotically. When we take the macho aspect out of climbing, when we make climbing something that becomes about as dangerous and adventurous as playing volleyball without a helmet....of course it will have greater appeal. When leading difficult rock (something that used to require guts, skill and great judgment) is demystified by a trail of bolts, and when we let today's climbers feel as though they're really doing something that is parallel to the old, heroic 5th-class leading, then new climbers will inundate our cliffs in search of that heroic, sharp-end feeling. It's just one, big happy illusion.....and I'm all for Quixotic fantasies, just not when the result is crowding and ugly bolt trails.

 

Back when I was young people who made such statements about the cowardice of others were not afraid to use their real names while doing so. Golden Age indeed.

 

If it weren't for the juvenile language and obscene images of perverted toads one encounters on this site, I could probably post from my workplace using my real name and not feel embarassed about it.

 

So then, how do you feel about incessant Richard Simmons postings, and Sport climbers are gay posting. This is very offensive in a two-fold manner: 1.) you are insinuating that something is wrong w/ being a homosexual, and 2.) you are then using that little "factoid" to then slam sportclimbing

 

You are a hypocrite if you are who i think you are. Your previous postings point to the fact that you can get right down to the level of JayB and others...So don't play that weak card...

 

You are insinuating that I am Dwayner? I am not. Dwayner has not posted here since he was arbitrarily banned. I know this for a fact.

 

I challenge you to find one statement (made by Dwayner) that sport climbers are gay. I don't think you'll find it.

 

No...i'm insinuating that you are Pope...

[Off_White]

I think the whole cant about how bold the oldies were and how pure and ideal the development of clean climbing was is fundamentalist history revision. Despite impassioned pleas in Chouinard Catalogs, the reason nuts caught on was not because pin scars were so abhorent, but because they were easier, faster, and safer. I could hang from one hand and place a nut, hell, even do it left handed, but dangle and set a pin? Clean climbing brought the sport down to a level that average folks could do more routes. People were no more bold then than they are now, I think Rudy's hit the nail right on the head about how many bold climbers are in the game, the percentage hasn't changed much through the years. For the most part, trad climbs are not that dangerous, or else we'd see a lot more fatalities from falls.

 

To rewrite history so that you can feel special about how brave you were is a little twisted. I'd rather think about what I'm going to do next season than dwell on what I did 25 years ago, and I'd rather find a new favorite band than fawn over a remastered Cream re-release. Which way do you choose to face, forwards or back? Elders have always complained about the following generation, you can find examples as far back as there is writing, and when I was younger I vowed not to grow up to be one of those people. I'd appreciate a short sharp reminder from any of you folks if I fall into that stodgy posture. And no JKassidy, that's not at all the same thing as saying that everything new is good and ignoring the past.

 

Back to a part of the original thrust of the thread, if you want to talk about impact on the rock for the general public, the issue should not be bolts, but chalk, an argument that purists "lost" long ago. Even in the hotly contested lava tubes, I think it was the chalk smears everywhere that alarmed others more than any bolt placements. I confess to using it too often, as much as a physical assist, it functions as a ritual, a calming and focusing mantra, like clearing your throat.

[mattp]

Kassidy -

This pathetic game of hiding behind a new avatar and pretending to be outraged when somebody accuses you of being Dwayner is just that - pathetic.

 

As is being said here - if you want to identify yourself, you can. I don't think anybody is ever harassed or otherwise abused for identifying who they are on this bulletin board. I'm not sure they have ever been. Meanwhile, if you want to play games about who your are, you have absolutely nothing to complain about in this matter of being falsely accused of being the widely regarded Dwayner who so many people respect and appreciate.

[To_The_Top]

Evolve or die...where is Drus old autosig....

[Necronomicon]

I couldn't agree more about the chalk. Bolts are usually hard to see, but chalk stands out like a sore thumb.

 

 

[cracked]

jkassidy said:

I challenge you to find one statement (made by Dwayner) that sport climbers are gay. I don't think you'll find it.

 

Really?

 

There are at least 5 other threads that he started on this very topic....not to mention the hundreds of other lame posts he made trying to crash other threads.

[Necronomicon]

cracked said:

jkassidy said:

I challenge you to find one statement (made by Dwayner) that sport climbers are gay. I don't think you'll find it.

 

Really?

 

There are at least 5 other threads that he started on this very topic....not to mention the hundreds of other lame posts he made trying to crash other threads.

 

Where does your example suggest that sport climbers are homosexuals?

[cracked]

Necronomicon said:

cracked said:

jkassidy said:

I challenge you to find one statement (made by Dwayner) that sport climbers are gay. I don't think you'll find it.

 

Really?

 

There are at least 5 other threads that he started on this very topic....not to mention the hundreds of other lame posts he made trying to crash other threads.

 

Where does your example suggest that sport climbers are homosexuals?

It's called sublety, Necro. Notice the photos.

[Necronomicon]

cracked said:

Necronomicon said:

cracked said:

jkassidy said:

I challenge you to find one statement (made by Dwayner) that sport climbers are gay. I don't think you'll find it.

 

Really?

 

There are at least 5 other threads that he started on this very topic....not to mention the hundreds of other lame posts he made trying to crash other threads.

 

Where does your example suggest that sport climbers are homosexuals?

It's called sublety, Necro. Notice the photos.

 

One photo shows some mangled looking loser. The other shows a swordman attacking you with his foil. The former is meant by Dwayner to represent sport climbers (losers). The latter is meant to represent Dwayner, hacking you to peices with his witty foil.

 

I find nothing in your example that suggests that sport climbers are homosexuals. Try again.

[vegetablebelay]

We did get a reminder of that genius known as Heywood Jablowme. Where oh where is he now?

[Dru]

To_The_Top said:

Evolve or die...where is Drus old autosig....

 

here

[Dru]

 

This one pretty good too

[rbw1966]

Why are bolts considered a blight and pin scars considered bold climbing?

[Ursa_Eagle]

rbw1966 said:

Why are bolts considered a blight and pin scars considered bold climbing?

 

because bolts permanantly affect the rock! Sport climbing is neither a sport nor climbing! You're all losers and gay!

 

(Note evasion of actual response)

[bunglehead]

Dru said:

 

This one pretty good too

 

Hehe

[pope]

mattp said:

Kassidy -

This pathetic game of hiding behind a new avatar and pretending to be outraged when somebody accuses you of being Dwayner is just that - pathetic.

 

As is being said here - if you want to identify yourself, you can. I don't think anybody is ever harassed or otherwise abused for identifying who they are on this bulletin board. I'm not sure they have ever been. Meanwhile, if you want to play games about who your are, you have absolutely nothing to complain about in this matter of being falsely accused of being the widely regarded Dwayner who so many people respect and appreciate.

 

From where did you get the impression that I am outraged about being confused for Dwayner, or that I'm pretending to be outraged? This makes absolutely no sense. After a number of people insinuated that I am he, I simply pointed out that they were not correct.

 

I feel no need to identify myself. This is the internet for crying out loud, and since I present unpopular opinions, and since I have no idea what kind of cretins are reading this crap, I think it is wise to remain anonymous. Why anybody would care about my identity is beyond me, but it isn't hard to figure out. Anybody who cares may simply send a PM to one of our esteemed and ethical moderators; I'm certain he will spill the beans.

[pope]

RuMR said:

jkassidy said:

RuMR said:

jkassidy said:

JayB said:

jkassidy said:

Bolts, crowds, crowded campgrounds.....they seem to conspicuously coexist, almost symbiotically. When we take the macho aspect out of climbing, when we make climbing something that becomes about as dangerous and adventurous as playing volleyball without a helmet....of course it will have greater appeal. When leading difficult rock (something that used to require guts, skill and great judgment) is demystified by a trail of bolts, and when we let today's climbers feel as though they're really doing something that is parallel to the old, heroic 5th-class leading, then new climbers will inundate our cliffs in search of that heroic, sharp-end feeling. It's just one, big happy illusion.....and I'm all for Quixotic fantasies, just not when the result is crowding and ugly bolt trails.

 

Back when I was young people who made such statements about the cowardice of others were not afraid to use their real names while doing so. Golden Age indeed.

 

If it weren't for the juvenile language and obscene images of perverted toads one encounters on this site, I could probably post from my workplace using my real name and not feel embarassed about it.

 

So then, how do you feel about incessant Richard Simmons postings, and Sport climbers are gay posting. This is very offensive in a two-fold manner: 1.) you are insinuating that something is wrong w/ being a homosexual, and 2.) you are then using that little "factoid" to then slam sportclimbing

 

You are a hypocrite if you are who i think you are. Your previous postings point to the fact that you can get right down to the level of JayB and others...So don't play that weak card...

 

You are insinuating that I am Dwayner? I am not. Dwayner has not posted here since he was arbitrarily banned. I know this for a fact.

 

I challenge you to find one statement (made by Dwayner) that sport climbers are gay. I don't think you'll find it.

 

No...i'm insinuating that you are Pope...

 

 

Oh, you see, I got the impression that you were insinuating that I'm Dwayner since you mentioned the posts featuring Richard Simmons photos, of which Dwayner posted many and I posted zero. Also, many have accused Dwayner of posting "sport climbers are gay" material, and that's another reason I thought you were confusing me for Dwayner.

 

By the way, that's a terrible thing of which to accuse Dwayner! Were you able to find any of these "sport climbers are gay" posts that Dwayner supposedly posted?

 

Finally, I would say that "RuMr" is every bit as anonymous as my current "avatar". I post anonymously for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that I do not wish to expose my family to the lunatic element that is potentially reading this crap. There's a good chance that you've figured out who I am, and if you're right, you must know that I'd be happy to tell anybody in person the same opinions I express on this BB.