am i an asshole

[Ursa_Eagle]

am I a

[Scott_J]

Erik, I have found that when you tell the truth people either hate you or love you for it. Tell a lie and everyone loves you until you are found out. Then the shit hits the fan. I worked for a principal in Alaska that was like this. He was a lying fuck.

[allthumbs]

I'm the biggest fucking liar in the world.

[scrambler]

erik said:

for not caring about others who have died.

 

it is tragic, but not enough for me to feel emotional over it. i do not see the point in grandstanding with our emotions over something like this.

 

i have had a few friends die and a few family members pass it was sad, but i do not see how allowing these things in which i have no control over to rule my life?

 

someone in that accident did make a mistake. i dont know what it is and most likely never will know. but i have every right to think about it and pass conjecture over what i see as possbile errors on their part.

 

and to answer radon's question about who somethings just are not in our control. you are right, but i do not live my life in the closet afraid of the what i cannot control.

 

hate me whatever...

 

Hey, I believe your opinionated response was as valid as any other. What does anyone expect? Are we supposed to have canned answers, the rubber stamp response to every tragic climbing accident? Sometimes we see subdued responses that really don’t speak to anyone in particular, the typical condolences. I didn’t take any offense with your comment, it was somewhat jarring but it resonated with a part of what I believe too. Be careful, use your head, think, listen to your instincts, climb responsibly, know your climbing partner, and be prepared for the unexpected.

 

I don’t believe that your response was a basis for hating you as a person. You can’t judge the entire essence of person for what he posts on a website. These are only words, your real life actions as a climbing partner or whatever may show you to be something different. Courage to speak what you believe, I think, defines you as much as your climbing. I see your responses as an attempt to clarify your thinking and that I believe is a large part of our lives, to see through all of the murkiness of life and to see more clearly.

 

[willstrickland]

I think I felt the same way about the incident as you Erik, but some things are best left unsaid.

 

As climbers, some feel a "connection" to fallen climbers or their grieving families/friends because of a shared interest/passion. I personally think this is ridiculous for the following reason:

 

Most of us are regular automobile drivers. In fact, most of us spend WAY more time behind the wheel than we do climbing. People die driving every day. When you see/hear of a fatal auto accident, do you feel a special connection with the victim because they are a 'fellow driver' ? Exactly.

 

Still, you don't yell out the window at the survivors "dude should have stuck to the side streets and stayed off the interstate! Gaper!"

[Dru]

willstrickland said:

I think I felt the same way about the incident as you Erik, but some things are best left unsaid.

 

As climbers, some feel a "connection" to fallen climbers or their grieving families/friends because of a shared interest/passion. I personally think this is ridiculous for the following reason:

 

Most of us are regular automobile drivers. In fact, most of us spend WAY more time behind the wheel than we do climbing. People die driving every day. When you see/hear of a fatal auto accident, do you feel a special connection with the victim because they are a 'fellow driver' ? Exactly.

 

Still, you don't yell out the window at the survivors "dude should have stuck to the side streets and stayed off the interstate! Gaper!"

 

often time you yell or are mad at the idiot who caused the accident

 

in climbing, like driving, sometimes it is the idiot who caused the accident who is the victim.

[allthumbs]

I watched Vertical Limit on TV last night.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

trask said:

I watched Vertical Limit on TV last night.

 

TRUE!

[Dustin_B]

A couple more points that haven't been discussed yet.

 

What about when someone we know *of* dies, but that we don't know personally? Say some great climber -- that we all know about from reading his/her stories in magazines, but that few of us actually know -- dies? I'd bet you would feel a bit of sorrow over the lose of greatness. Sure you probably wouldn't feel the sorrow of the friends and families. You didn't really know this 'great' climber any more than you knew the guys in CA who died. And you can actually probably relate to the CA guys climbing ability better than the 'great' climbers ability. Why do you feel more sad over the lose of the 'great' climber. (does that question make since?)

 

Also, what kind of person are you if you are happy when a particular person dies? I know many cc.comers would be quite happy if W died today. Personally I would feel completely indifferent. I was quite happy to hear about Sadam's sons getting killed though, but that is probably the only time I have been happy over someone's death. that is an extreme case though.

 

just some thoughts to discuss.

[iain]

willstrickland said:Still, you don't yell out the window at the survivors "dude should have stuck to the side streets and stayed off the interstate! Gaper!"

[JayB]

willstrickland said:

I think I felt the same way about the incident as you Erik, but some things are best left unsaid.

 

As climbers, some feel a "connection" to fallen climbers or their grieving families/friends because of a shared interest/passion. I personally think this is ridiculous for the following reason:

 

Most of us are regular automobile drivers. In fact, most of us spend WAY more time behind the wheel than we do climbing. People die driving every day. When you see/hear of a fatal auto accident, do you feel a special connection with the victim because they are a 'fellow driver' ? Exactly.

 

Still, you don't yell out the window at the survivors "dude should have stuck to the side streets and stayed off the interstate! Gaper!"

 

 

For most of us driving is a necessity, not an activity which we have a passion for such that we deliberately organize a significant part of our life around it. Your analogy would be more apt if you were talking about amateur race-car drivers that dedicate most of their spare money and time working on cars for races that they spend many of their weekends engaged in. I would bet that when one of their fellow enthusiasts dies on the track it affects some of them quite a bit more than when someone plows a minivan into a median on their way to the grocery store.

 

In any event, no one ever said that feeling even a hint of sorrow for the dead or vague feelings of sympathy for those left behind is required of anyone. Some people will feel these emotions in response to a given accident, some people won’t. If you couldn't give a shit - that's fine, but I hardly think it's necessary or proper for anyone to make a specific point of saying so.

 

For me most of the time my response to tragic news depends on how much I know about the accident and how the deceased's passing has affected those left behind. If all I read is so and so died on this peak on this day – then I am usually pretty indifferent. If there’s quite a bit of detail about their life, their family, and/or a narrative by a wife, best-friend, etc talking about what kind of a person they were, how the deceased absence has affected them, and the like then that’s a different story. I’m not sure how you can presume to tell people which of their feelings are authentic or not, or that what are most likely sincere expressions of condolences are nothing more than inauthentic posturing (though some may well be) without a bit more interaction and engagement than postings over the internet can permit, let alone mock or dismiss them because they expressed feelings that you didn’t happen to share.

 

 

[rbw1966]

no--but you climb like a mad fool!

 

Edited October 22, 2003 by rbw1966

[rbw1966]

p.s. I suck at MSpaint

[Ursa_Eagle]

rbw1966 said:

no--but you climb like a mad fool!

 

 

[catbirdseat]

trask said:

I'm the biggest fucking liar in the world.

Yep

[Alpinfox]

Alpinfox said:

iain said:

you want some freaky shit? erik was climbing sans shirt over on the catwalk cliff. one look across the gorge and I peeled off As You Like It at the crux fingers in terror

 

If I were feeling more energetic, my response to this post would be to photochop the gollum picture and paste Erik's mug on there....

 

Anyone else wanna adopt the project?

 

SEND SEND SEND!!!

 

That's the one.

[iain]

that's 10x funnier with the crap ms paint job

[iain]

here's to ghetto photoshopers

 

[rbw1966]

The worst part was having to stare at carrot-top whilst engaged in the activity. That tongue thing is pretty disturbing.

[erik]

rbw1966 said:

The worst part was having to stare at carrot-top whilst engaged in the activity. That tongue thing is pretty disturbing.

 

what you talk pretty to me when we are drunk and in your 4runner, but now i am gone i am noting but a disturbing ether trip??

 

pfft no wonder layton moved to portland......necro just wasnt insensitive enough......especially compared to you people!

 

 

 

[rbw1966]

erik said:

rbw1966 said:

The worst part was having to stare at carrot-top whilst engaged in the activity. That tongue thing is pretty disturbing.

 

what you talk pretty to me when we are drunk and in your 4runner, but now i am gone i am noting but a disturbing ether trip??

 

pfft no wonder layton moved to portland......necro just wasnt insensitive enough......especially compared to you people!

 

 

We were in my 4runner together? Shit--I don't remember that. Layton warned me about you but I didn't listen. . .

 

I still love you red man.

[HRoark]

trask said:

I'm the biggest fucking liar in the world.

 

I don't believe you. Bwahahahaha!!!

[allthumbs]

HRoark said:

trask said:

I'm the biggest fucking liar in the world.

 

I don't believe you. Bwahahahaha!!!

You're right...I lied!

[sk]

trask said:

HRoark said:

trask said:

I'm the biggest fucking liar in the world.

 

I don't believe you. Bwahahahaha!!!

You're right...I lied!

[allthumbs]