euro traveling question

[gapertimmy]

my buddy here at work is starting to plan his 6 week voyage abroad (gonna happen next June) i'm sure there are quite a few cc'ers who have done a similar journey and might be able to lend some usefull advice.

 

he's looking for info on:

must see places

gear reccomendations (pack, clothing, etc)

milf stashes

 

and any other usefull information about touring around europe. any info/links would be preciated!

 

thanks

tim

[Jim]

What's his interest? Countries in particular? Is this climbing, treking, hiking and some wine tasting?

[dryad]

For general tourist info, check out the Rick Steves guidebooks.

[mattp]

If he's into cities, he'll want to spend time in Paris and Amsterdam. If you want to see art and night life and stuff like that, these are MUST DO. If he wants to see countryside, the south of France is probably the most pleasant place I have ever traveled and if he is a rock climber, tell him to head for the Verdon Gorge: it is ABSOLUTELY MUST DO and he'll be able to pick up a partner within a couple hours of arrival there. And don't forget about Eurodisney.

 

Is he going to be "backpacking" or renting a car or what?

[David_Parker]

I did Europe for 6 months with girlfriend in late 80's. I had been once before and traveled with eurail pass. I didn't like it. So for my six month trip I landed in Amsterdam, which is the BEST city to fly to. I bought a VW Bus for $900 and fixed it up into a camper by buying stuff at the huge flea market. We then drove that thing all through Belgium, France, Italy, Greece, Yugoslavia, Austria, Germany and back to Holland where we sold it for $1600! Then we went to England/Scotland and hichhiked. I'm telling you this is the ONLY way to go. No trains means you get off the beaten path and meet the real people. No Hotel rooms or hostels with other Americans and the associated costs of time and $ looking for them. We never stayed in campgrounds either. On Corfu, we parked it in a goat pasture and got jobs and hung out for a month. In Yugoslavia we hooked up with another Canadian couple and traveled with them for a week. They were going too fast for our likes. The slower you go, the less money you spend. Our Bus ran on LP gas which saved lots of $. I did the haute route, climbed in the Verdon, scuba dived in Nice,. and Greece and climbed highest Mts. in many of the countries: Olympus, Triglav, Grossglockner and almost Mt. Blanc. Had I known more about the Dolomites I would have gone there too (so I had to go back). Having Dutch plates was cool too 'cause nobody instantly recognized us as Americans. We did our cultural city things too (Florence and Rome are a must!) but to me meeting the real locals was the highlight. They always invite you to their homes and want to feed you! Doors open when you get off the beaten toristo path! That trip totally and btw, the is awesome in Germany, Holland and the UK. Ahh, to be 25 and single again!

[gapertimmy]

backpacking, he's not a climber, just wants to tour around, he has 6 weeks.

[rbw1966]

I've been to europe many times and am heading back again over christmas.

 

6 weeks is a bit short for thinking about the hassles of car buying. Great idea for longer trips though. Renting a car can be a nice alternative. Some places are pretty cheap but keep in mind that gas is way more spendy over there.

 

Travel light. As light as you can get away with. Hauling heavy bags around the train stations etc really sucks. Take night trains so you can consolidate travel and sleeping arrangements. I took a sleeper train from Rome to Venice, Amsterdam to Paris as well as a night boat from Split to Ancona. You wake up in a new city and ready to go.

 

You'll want to check out the huge toursty cities like Rome, Paris, Frankfurt. Go for it. But try to stray from the beaten path. Your experience will be so much the better if you can meet some of the locals in the smaller villages.

 

Try to experience some of the central and eastern european countries if you can. Prague is an awesome city, so is Dubrovnik, Bratislava, Budapest, Warsaw. I'll be climbing in the Tatras this winter and I can't wait.

 

And finally, I can't stress this enough: buy some phrase books (Lonely Planet makes some great ones) and use them. Even if the people you speak to know English, it means a lot if you show even the smallest efforts at speaking their native tongue. I've heard the same complaints about Americans in Germany, Croatia, Czech etc: we refuse to learn any new languages or honor the native language. You can spot American tourons a mile off: they'll be the ones speaking loudly but slowly--in english--to the locals thinking that somehow volume and cadence will magically turn a non-english speaker into one.

 

Have fun!

[Stefan]

Dolomites.

 

Ignore most of the upper 2/3s of Germany. Boring.

[mattp]

I agree with David Parker that travelling in a rental car is a better way to go, but backpacking/hostelling can be fun too. He'll meet lots of other people doing the same thing and he will find out from them that there is a really cool beach somewhere or that the good smoke is available at such and such a coffee house or whatever.

 

RBW is right - most people travelling this way quickly find out that they have brought too much luggage and they start leaving things behind as quickly as they can.

 

RBW is also right that using a phrase-book will help your buddy meet and get help from locals, whether it is at the bakery, the train station or in a hotel. A cultural guide will also help inform him that, in Greece, waving good-bye the way we do actually means something quite different - and it is insulting - or that French people will not like it if he shouts accross a store to his buddy that he forgot to get the cheese whiz.

 

As to hotels, he may find that a cheap hotel that caters to backpack travellers will cost little or no more than a hostel - and they usually don't have stupid rules about bedtime and alcohol and stuff like that.

[forrest_m]

I did a similar trip, and later returned to live in Europe for almost 2 years. My advice, more or less in order of importance:

 

1) do not try to see “all of Europe” in six weeks. Pick one region (i.e. spain & italy, or scandanavia, etc.), or one large country (i.e. france or germany/Austria) and get to know it. In the end, having come to know one culture will be much more fun than having completed some impressive checklist of euro-capitals. Try staying in large cities for at least a week – long enough to go to the same café a couple of times, to find a favorite restaurant, to get the hang of the public transportation system. My memory of “checklist” traveling is chiefly of train stations and bus depots.

 

2) Find a theme for your trip. My experience is that it is hard to maintain motivation for random tourism for more than two weeks. All the churches, museums and discos start to run together. I’ve found it helps a lot to have some larger goal that you can use to organize your plans. It can be anything – visiting all of alvar aalto’s buildings in finland, every independent record store in the south of England, whatever floats your boat.

 

3) Be flexible. There is no reason whatsoever to have more than a vague plan beyond the next few days.

 

4) Pick traveling companions carefully. I really preferred traveling alone – with the whole youth hostel scene, you are only as alone as you want to be, and I liked being able to move on when I felt like it without any guilt. (as a side note, your friend can take comfort in the fact that youth hostels make hooking up about as easy as it will ever get. Everyone is traveling, everyone is looking for an adventure. If you can’t get laid at a youth hostel, you are not really trying.)

 

5) Don’t try to combine climbing/outdoor activity with your first trip to Europe. You will end up spending an inordinate amount of time shuffling equipment and luggage around and will just feel short-changed on both counts.

 

6) On suitcases – like alpine climbing, light and fast is best. I started out in one of those big suitcase/backpacks, but ended up ditching it for my bookbag. It’s Europe, center of civilization – anything you are missing, you can buy. You can wash your underwear in the sink every night. If you purchase keepsakes, wrap them up and mail them home – no reason to lug them around for a month. Luggage hassles are the number one bummer of traveling, even worse if you are moving around a lot. Your suitcase will never get stolen if it is small enough to keep in your lap rather than under the bus/in the luggage compartment/etc.

 

7) On guidebooks – IMHO, the hands down best are the Rough Guides, followed by Lonely Planet. Time out and Rick Steve’s fall a bit further down, Let’s Go is OK if it’s all you have, the “grown up” guides (frommers, Michelin) are pretty much useless. (I’ve found this ranking to hold true worldwide). One more note – consider your guidebook a consumable, not a sacred bible. Nothing makes you standout as a rube tourist more than hauling out a 3 inch thick Lets Go at every corner to check the map. Here’s a novel idea: TEAR OUT THE PAGES YOU NEED FOR THAT DAY. Wouldn’t you rather carry 4 pages than 400? Use a big rubber band to hold the whole book together.

 

8) Remember, you are supposed to have fun. If it ever starts to feel like work, take a day off, go to the beach, stay in your hotel room and watch MTV, call you mom, whatever.

 

[David_Parker]

Excellent posts rbw & forrest, I agree, 6 weeks is a little short to buy a car. When I went back to the Dolomites, we rented a car. A little 3 cylander Fiat that got about 40 mpg. Driving in the mountains is a SPORT! The rental car still got us off the beaten path. There are thousands of homes throughout Europe where people rent rooms in their houses. Most are not walking distance from train stations or listed in books. Just look for little signs that say "rooms" in respective language. Another tip is try not to see too many counties in one trip or it will just be a big blur and seem like you spent too much time figuring out travel and sleeping accomodations. 6 weeks is about perfect for 2 countries Max. Italy can't be beat for being diverse and France is nice too. I can't comment on Eastern countries because they were all behind the iron curtain when I was in them. Prague is beautiful though. Also, if you are concerned about being instantly recognized as an American, sew a Canadian flag on you backpack and say eh a lot! You'll be more quickly connected without prejudice.

Edited September 26, 2003 by David_Parker

[rbw1966]

Forrest birngs up an EXCELLENT point: flexibility. Life moves to a different tempo is euro countries. If you create a cooky-cutter itinerary you will soon be pulling out your hair in frustration with trying to adhere to it. Develop a general idea of what it is you want to do and flow with it. Remember you are on vacation and go with it. Adapt to changes.

 

Oh, and if you are wearing shorts the day you decide you want to go to the Vatican there is a small cart outside the gates of the city that sells these crappy scrub-like pants. Tres chic!

[mattp]

If your buddy is worried about being labeled an American, DP is right he can masquerade as Canadian. Personally, I have never found that I was mistreated for my citizenship anywhere in the world: outside of the U.S., people seem much more able to distinguish between someone's government and the individual. (You probably won't even get any harassment even if you had a small American flag or a patch that said "NewYork" on your backpack in Paris, but can you imagine traveling around this country with a turban on your head or something that identifies you as an Iranian?) If your buddy makes a spectacle or nuisance of himself somewhere, he is likely to be chastized for being an obnoxious American. If not, I doubt he'll have much trouble with it.

[gapertimmy]

life moves at a different tempo in central oregon as well, it was quite a change from seattle when i first moved here.

 

besides my buddy's borderline-lethal smelly ass, i don't think he'll be an onboxious touron.

 

Thanks for all the tips, keep them coming please.

[blue_morph]

Rent a car. Unless you're like 25 or younger the rail passes are no savings over buying tickets. Go directly to Switzerland, the mountains there are amazing and you can be served wine and cheese on a glacier. Don't try to do too much. With 6 weeks I'd do three countries max.

[Dustin_B]

Go to the beach in Barcelona (many fine naked honeys) and stay in co-ed hostels rooms.

[j_b]

if you rent a car, rent it in advance from here (much cheaper).

 

forrest_m said: visiting all of alvar aalto’s buildings in finland

is this what you did? it sounds pretty cool. i am jealous.

[cj001f]

blue_morph said:

Rent a car. Unless you're like 25 or younger the rail passes are no savings over buying tickets.

I'd disagree - if your travelling by yourself you'll meet a ton more interesting people travelling by train & staying in hostels. And the railpasses aren't that good a deal - unless your taking alot of long rail journeys - which is stupid, given the cheap Euro air carriers like Easyjet.com

Travelling by train is also MUCH easier if you're going to be spending alot of time in cities. Driving in Italian cities sucks.

[To_The_Top]

Renting a car is a good way to travel, when leaving a city. Maybe spend some time in a city on foot, there is usually really good public transportation, and you can get an idea how people drive before jumping into the mess.

Paris you could spend a lot of time just in the city, sometimes there are city passes you can get where you can go and see a lot of turonsites at a reduced price. In Paris I wouldnt even dream of renting a car while in town, you would miss a lot of the local life others have pointed out in previous posts and the drivers in Paris are CRAZY, and parking is beyond hellish. Rent the car on days leaving the city--From what I have seen a car is much more of a liabilty than it is here.

I have only been to Northern Europe, for extended periods of time, and my favorites were Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Paris and Stockholm.

Oh, get a plug adapter if he uses any electronics from the US, and take a backpack rather then a suitcase.

TTT

[rbw1966]

cj001f said:

Driving in Italian cities sucks.

 

I rented a scooter in Rome over the summer and had a blast. Its like soloing a long alpine route below a group of mountaineers--you're always on the watch for someone trying to kill you.

 

It was the only way to cool down too.

[Winter]

MUIR - Amsterdam

MILF - Florence

HC - Prague

 

That's all you need to know.

 

And remember, you're an American. The world is your toilet or at least that's the way most of us act.

[glassgowkiss]

fuck italy france and all the other sheit. go to Czech republic and Slovakia. Maybe go to Chorwacja or Slowenia. places are cheap, people are friendly. Amsterdam, fuck that- Praga rules! plus you can swing by Teplice and climb sandstone. Slovakia has some awsome limestone, all bolt protected. plus hiking is kick ass and you can get by without a car.

I was in the area for 7 weeks, spend about $1200 +plane ticket.

also would be better to after the tourist season is over, so you don't have to put up with crowds.

bonus- chicks are good looking, friendly and nice (they don't behave like the universe revolves around them)

oh yeah, beer is good and cheap too, so is food.

[cj001f]

rbw1966 said:I rented a scooter in Rome over the summer and had a blast. Its like soloing a long alpine route below a group of mountaineers--you're always on the watch for someone trying to kill you.

 

It must have been an oven over there.