allthumbs Posted January 2, 2002 Posted January 2, 2002 Kinda narrow minded attitude isn't it Rod? What's so damn bad about using whatever aids are available? Quote
willstrickland Posted January 2, 2002 Posted January 2, 2002 Bitch, moan, repeat. C'mon dudes, everything (well almost everything) has it's place. Anyone ever hiked the Maze section of Canyonlands? GPS has a real good place there because otherwise everything looks the same and using std map/compass procedures requires intense diligence and experience, you've got to constantly consult the map and try to keep up with the topo features which are so similar it's ridiculous. I hiked off-trail daily by map and compass relying on my abilities to get me (and 11 criminal teenagers) to a water source, so I'd say I have a good handle on map/compass. Ever run multi-day rivers trips? Hmmm, should we stop here (which is where?) or shoot for the nice cool, flat spot with a sandy beach up ahead (which is how far?) GPS is pretty nice there. And, finally, analog can have it's own set of errors. Heavy iron deposits can sway the magnetic reading on a compass, as can electrical current (it's called an induced magnetic field for those liberal arts majors out there). Combine that with the inherent error in determining the exact declination of your location, and the errors in sighting through the compass...you may be worse off with the analog...over a long distance anyway. A near-sighted yuppie dude in one of those electric heater TNF jackets, that could be trouble with analog. Personally, I wouldn't want to rely on GPS in a situation where battery failure is probable (i.e. mountaineering where the cold will sap the batts). What you take with you is based on your own comfort, to criticize others for what they take or don't take is silly unless they are your partner, or you're the one rescuing their unprepared ass. Quote
hikerwa Posted January 2, 2002 Posted January 2, 2002 Just my 2 cents. 36" is fine, if you need longer ones tape two together with the extra duct tape you have. I also carry one of those small gps thingies, its a great additional tool to check map and compass. The only draw back is battery life, for anything over two days spares are needed especially if it's cold. Sean P.S. I've never used the gps on a glacier, only on approaches. Quote
Richard_Pumpington Posted January 2, 2002 Posted January 2, 2002 COMING SOON TO A MOUNTAIN NEAR YOU!! AlpineK lost, on that very same mountain!Maybe he should have stuck to climbing trees! Quote
AlpineK Posted January 2, 2002 Posted January 2, 2002 You guys are funny. If I was climbing the G ledges on Rainier. I would take a map, compass, and the knoledge in their use. In addition the ability to assess the weather and make good judgements based on it is an important thing to take. Mt Rainier is so overrun with climbers that wands are basicly trash. There are lots of wands on the standard route. (which should be the descent for climbers on the G ledges) In addition if you set out to climb a route like the G ledges in poor weather you need to have your head examined, and if bad weather moves in while you are ascending you should turn around and follow your foot tracks down the mountain. Note: if its snowing and blowing so hard you can't see your foot tracks then you probably either waited too long to turn around or you didn't assess the weather correctly at the start of the climb. Now if I was going somewhere truely remote (like Mt. Fairweather) I would probably take a couple wands a GPS to supplement my map and compass. I wouldn't go anywhere in the mountains without taking good judgement (which doesn't weigh anything) PS Dick (good name) I'm not going to get into a pissing match about experience, but I'm pretty sure I have enough. [ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: AlpineK ] Quote
erik Posted January 2, 2002 Posted January 2, 2002 quote: Originally posted by AlpineK: PS Dick (good name) I'm not going to get into a pissing match about experience, but I'm pretty sure I have enough. [ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: AlpineK ] i dunno man i think you are kinda sketchy!! Quote
hikerwa Posted January 2, 2002 Posted January 2, 2002 AK, you're on the money with the G ledges, did it several years ago in nasty near whiteout conditions, compass, map and good sense prevailed and we made it out perfectly fine. If the weather is nasty Dan, you shouldn't be on G-ledges, and won't need wands, if the weather is good you will be descending the DC route, and won't need wands. Futhermore as stated by my brother AK, wanding most routes on the big R, especially the really popular ones, is probably useless because there are so many already on a given day. I usually take about 30-50 but I usually return with most of them unused. have fun and be careful up there, it could be a tough climb. Sean Quote
Richard_Pumpington Posted January 2, 2002 Posted January 2, 2002 Yo AlpineK, This wasn't a pissing match about experience, buta rouse, to get you to admit that you place wands,that they are valuable and have their place. I wouldn't ever count on other peoples wands or theirjob of correctly wanding(that's like counting onother peoples fixed ropes) and if you have neverbeen caught by unexpected weather while climbinga mountain,(and you live in Seattle?)then you don'tget out and climb that much and never in the winter. Quote
AlpineK Posted January 2, 2002 Posted January 2, 2002 From your last post it seems like you still want a pissing match Dick. Like I said I've never placed wands. On a mountain like Rainier they are trash. Quite often stuff I do in the mountains involves traversing in which case I fail to see how wands would ever be of use. I like climbing technical stuff, but I'm way into descending by the easiest route possible. Quote
Dan_Larson Posted January 2, 2002 Author Posted January 2, 2002 Very valuable advice from you all and I appreciate it.Got gps info from ranger, map, compass coming also . I feel more comfortable bringing about 150 wands. Maybe this will change after the climb?We have 5 days so hopefully we will get a chance at the summit. [ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: Dan Larson ] Quote
DPS Posted January 2, 2002 Posted January 2, 2002 Larson, In my experience 'planning' a winter ascent of Rainier for a particular date does not work real well. The better strategy is to wait for a settled period of weather then climb quickly to take advantage of what might be a narrow weather window. Just my 2 cents. Quote
Dan_Larson Posted January 2, 2002 Author Posted January 2, 2002 I completely agree with you . However we realized this when we decided to do this 3 months ago. The reason we didn't do it last week was my 3 partners are from New hampshire and arrangements had to be made in advance for obvious reasons. We will pray for the best and try to have fun at muir if need be. like I said we have 5 days so maybe we will get fortunate....Dan Quote
allthumbs Posted January 3, 2002 Posted January 3, 2002 quote: Originally posted by willstrickland: Bitch, moan, repeat. What you take with you is based on your own comfort, to criticize others for what they take or don't take is silly unless they are your partner, or you're the one rescuing their unprepared ass.______________________________ Damn good post strickland. My sentiments exactly.trask Quote
brukb Posted January 3, 2002 Posted January 3, 2002 I've done several Winter attempts on Rainier with 2 succesful summits. Wands are not "trash" there unless you leave them there. If you think that your judgement is infallible enough to keep you from ever getting into a whiteout, especially on Rainier, then you are a fool. I learned to bring about 100 wands on a Rainier Winter climb. I've been laughed at for bringing so many, on Denali too, until others had to follow our wands in poor conditions. Many were used just getting to Camp Muir, which is probably harder to descend from in a whiteout than descending from the summit. Gib ledge route doesn't need as many wands, especially if you are able descend that route. This is also the route of choice if conditions are right, just because it allows for shortest summit day, which is important in Winter. I have never used a GPS, but had a couple experiences on Rainier where I wish I had one.You cannot count on there being enough people climbing Rainier in the Winter to be able to follow their boot track or wands. You should be prepared to navigate the mountain entirely on your own, and be able to kick your own steps all the way to the summit and back as well.Before you even get to the mountain, plot your bearings and direction changes at specific elevations for your intended route and an alternate route, especially for your descent and most importantly just to get back to Paradise from Muir. Check your notes and make corrections as you ascend. The climbing rangers usually have a cheat sheet for navigating Muir-Paradise, get one for everybody in your party and see if you can follow those bearings on the approach to Muir, and be sure that you can do the same thing in the dark, in a whiteout with high winds while you are exhausted and no one else can help you. Winter is absolutely the best time to summit Rainier! It can be a real memorable experience, just keep it a good one. Your chance for a reasonable weather window is always fairly slim in Winter there, so don't be afraid to bail and come back, or to wait out bad weather for a few days at Muir. Good Luck, take a lot of photos, and keep yourself from becoming a story on the evening news here in Seattle. Bruk Quote
BigWallBigBallsRocky Posted January 3, 2002 Posted January 3, 2002 I got the biggest wand of them all. That chunk of horse cock in Beckey's fridge aint got nothin' on me. "Big Who"? Never heard of the guy. Quote
hikerwa Posted January 3, 2002 Posted January 3, 2002 some wands are held for charity, and some for fancy dress. but when they're held for pleasure, they're the wands that I like best. Quote
Stefan Posted January 3, 2002 Posted January 3, 2002 When I was climbing G2 a couple years ago, somebody placed wands. But they put REFLECTIVE TAPE on the wands. I thought that was awesome becuase then you could see the wands WITH YOUR HEADLAMP. You can't see any type of damned wand in the dark unless it reflects. Quote
Dru Posted January 3, 2002 Posted January 3, 2002 ...unless you use those raver kid glowsticks for wands. then you dont even need a headlamp to see em. Quote
tedserres Posted January 3, 2002 Posted January 3, 2002 You can get that reflective tape at Freddy's for about $3.00 in the hardware section... just made me a fancy new set of wands.... only 1 problem, they're 48" so I gotta cut them down -Ted Quote
Dru Posted January 3, 2002 Posted January 3, 2002 I believe the Eiger nord Wand is approximately 72000" long, or is that, high. Shlangeshmecker can you confirm? Quote
cmonster Posted January 4, 2002 Posted January 4, 2002 Alpine K, Damn, you suck! We're you that guy smoking a phatty at Muir and crow barring the bolts on Dan's Dreadful Muir Hut route? Probably, considering you've never placed a wand while eating gummie bears, strokin a GPS and droppin' the Willis Wall in winter... at night... without a headlamp... one ski... naked... Damn, you suck! Quote
the_shadow Posted January 4, 2002 Posted January 4, 2002 I think we're getting off topic here, which is that Dan Larson sucks. If you don't want to talk about Dan Larson sucking there are other forums out there. It's important that we talk about how and why Dan Larson sucks because this is cc.com and that's what we do here. Quote
Dan_Larson Posted January 4, 2002 Author Posted January 4, 2002 That was a different thread Alpine K ( really shadow)but do what you must. I am thoroughly enjoying watching the serious people on this site find you out and call your B.S.Experience is one thing and I am sure you are very experienced at skiing and climbing. But the other part of you ..Well Quote
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