flatland Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Is digging snow caves on Liberty Ridge and Ptarmagin Ridge a feasable idea. I have used tents in the past on Rainier, but after using several snow caves on recent winter climbs wonder if this might not be a bad idea. Caves are so warm, quiet and comfortable. Plus the bivies weigh alot less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Sure, a lot of people dig caves. It is a skill that can save your life. There are times up there when the wind blows so hard that no tent can stand. I've heard of climbers holed up in snow caves for days up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatland Posted March 31, 2003 Author Share Posted March 31, 2003 Are the snow conditions good (not ice, diggable with an aluminum shovel) in June at 10,000+ feet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 flatland said: Are the snow conditions good (not ice, diggable with an aluminum shovel) in June at 10,000+ feet? Maybe. I wouldn't rely on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Also, depending on your comfort level, you may decide to bet on a weather window in june. I've slept out in just a sleeping bag (no bivy, no tent) on rainer in August. If you get the weather, it's no problem. Now granted, I wouldn't do that without a damn good forecast or a backup plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatland Posted March 31, 2003 Author Share Posted March 31, 2003 Keep the comments comming. Right now, I am leaning towards trying the caves. Has anyone out there used one on Rainier in summer? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 There is a reason no one snow caves in summer...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Dru said: There is a reason no one snow caves in summer...... Dude, you forgot the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tod Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 I wouldn't rely on being able to punch through possible layers of ice and hard snow to create a snow cave on the lower/middle slopes of Liberty Ridge. Unless you've heard of a reliable report that the snow is easy to dig in (not likely), digging snow caves tend to be a pain in the *ss. Digging ledges and and creating snow walls or even small/partial igloos can be much easier and very sufficient. A few years back, a buddy of mine and I got a good weather window and took the bare minimum up Liberty Ridge (no tent, day packs, etc.) and ended up digging ledges and using bivy sacks. The walls we created from the excavated snow worked well to keep out most of the wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregm Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 i dug a snow cave just below pan point this time last year and the snow was rock hard. it was a lot of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless_Ev Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Carless Ev thinks snow caving at Thumb Rock is a great idea! Especially if your avatar is "Flatland" and you've chosen Liberty Ridge as your first route on Mount Rainier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 careless ev cracks me up sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana_Climber Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 The other option is to use the Bergscrhund for Ptarmigan Ridge. The only problem with that is worrying about the avalanches pouring in. I was holed up in that one for 2 days about 4 years ago over Memorial Day weekend. Above that point it really isn't practical until you get to the summit plateau. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatland Posted April 8, 2003 Author Share Posted April 8, 2003 Is there anyone out there who has actually used a snow cave on Mount Rainier for other than emergency situation (in June)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 I have. But now I have a Bibler so I dont have to do that shit anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 flatland said: Is there anyone out there who has actually used a snow cave on Mount Rainier for other than emergency situation (in June)? Yes. At Camp Muir. They said it sucked and would never do it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubblebutt Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 I can understand your desire to carry the lightest load possible and I'm guessing that you are trying to avoid carrying a tent, BUT last year the top 2,000 ft of Rainier was hard ice causing many accidents and deaths due to teams slipping and failing to self-arrest. To rely on being able to dig snow caves on your desired route would be quite a chance and not one I would take.Although the DC is a hump, tourist route etc, it's a very serious mountainwhen the weather comes in. Don't do it. You can rent a bibler tent from Backpacker's Supply in Tacoma if that's the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 nothing like arriving at a camp site after a long day's worth of climbing to say alright time to do some excavating. fun times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 isothermal snow and ice is wet and not comfy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 The energy you save by going lighter by ditching the tent will more than be made up erecting a temporary dwelling of ice and snow. If you want to go light and hardcore, bring a bivy sack and hope it doesn't snow hard. And if it does, go down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyclimb Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Emergency blankets are the best way to go. This way if a storm blows in you will remeber for the rest of your life to take a tent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinker Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 rbw1966 said: flatland said: Is there anyone out there who has actually used a snow cave on Mount Rainier for other than emergency situation (in June)? Yes. At Camp Muir. They said it sucked and would never do it again. That's prolly the LAST place I 'd dig a snow cave. Imagine digging through months and years of layered waste...... makes me shudder just to think about it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatland Posted April 10, 2003 Author Share Posted April 10, 2003 specialed said: The energy you save by going lighter by ditching the tent will more than be made up erecting a temporary dwelling of ice and snow. If you want to go light and hardcore, bring a bivy sack and hope it doesn't snow hard. And if it does, go down. The exertion of summit day on Ptarmagin must be the crux, and since it is a carry over likely hood of success would be greater with out the extra weight . . . Any one have a Bibler for sale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubblebutt Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 flatland said: specialed said: The energy you save by going lighter by ditching the tent will more than be made up erecting a temporary dwelling of ice and snow. If you want to go light and hardcore, bring a bivy sack and hope it doesn't snow hard. And if it does, go down. The exertion of summit day on Ptarmagin must be the crux, and since it is a carry over likely hood of success would be greater with out the extra weight . . . Any one have a Bibler for sale? Rent it dude,Backpackers Supply in Tacoma or Marmot Mountain Works in Redmond rent them. I think about $40 a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Don't automatically assume it has to be a carry over. It certainly can be done that way, but in fact almost everybody I know that climbed Ptarmigan Ridge downclimbed the route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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