Booty discussion

[Rad]

Can you keep the gear you find at a climbing area or not? That is the question.

Apparently, some people don't understand this important part of climbing culture, so here is a reminder in the form of a case study.  BOOTY = Finder may keep it without guilt or return it at their discretion. Loser should not expect gear returned. NOT BOOTY = finder should attempt to find the loser and return his/her gear, a finder's fee or some other form of gratitude is generally appropriate.

Single biner or quickdraw and/or piece of removable protection on a climb that was probably left by someone who bailed because it was too hard/scary. BOOTY.

1-2 cams/nuts on a route, probably by left by someone who bailed or a partner who couldn't clean them or some stoners who just forgot them. BOOTY.

Biner on slings or otherwise in an anchor where it looks like people belay and/or rappel, particularly in the alpine. NOT BOOTY. 

Quickdraws or perma-draws on every bolt of a steep sport route where it's difficult to clean/place quickdraws. NOT BOOTY.

Nut or other removable protection in an anchor in the alpine. Probably NOT BOOTY unless the rest of the anchor is super solid. 

Gear left in a bucket/bag under a rock/tree near climbs where route development/maintenance is happening. NOT BOOTY.

Someone's cute ass. Definitely BOOTY, but you need consent to grab it and/or take it home.

Feel free to add your own cases and spread the word.

 

[Benzo]

About 2 yrs ago I was doing Kautz - get to the chute and see these two guys starting up it and were just RAINING small-to-largish chunks of ice on everyone below. Took a golfball-sized bit of ice to the helmet even. Anyway, we go up after them (or at least when the hailstorm finally ended) and I start finding loads of stuff they'd dropped - an ice screw with draw attached, a locking biner with an atc, and another quickdraw. By the time we're at the top of the chute, we notice they've (I assume) taken the wrong way up to Point Success instead of Wapowety, and while we're heading to the cleaver you could see them evidently realize they'd gone the wrong way and decide to traverse back toward the true summit through a mess of seracs and whatnot. As far as I know they summited and got back down...?

A stupefying experience, but hey - booty is booty.

[Bronco]

Benzo, why not try to return the gear to the climbers who dropped it?  Seems like "not booty" if the climbers were in plain sight and possible to return the gear.

[Benzo]

By the time I was at the top of the chute, they were well on their way towards Point Success - no way I was going to a couple hours to follow them up to return dropped gear that could've split open someone's skull on the way down.

Never saw them on the summit or descent either - but no reports of rescues that week, so they managed I guess!

[JasonG]

1 hour ago, Rad said:

Quickdraws or perma-draws on every bolt of a steep sport route where it's difficult to clean/place quickdraws. NOT BOOTY.

What about a bolt ladder on something that hasn't seen a free ascent,  like on Monkey Face?  We encountered this at Smith in 2003 without a note or sign anywhere around to indicate someone was working the route.  No ropes, no chalk, not a soul around, but new draws on every bolt.  I realize this might be hard to believe in this day and age.

[mrice1225]

Brought a friend who was new to climbing on the tooth. On the first pitch, he just unclipped/took the draws off the first few nuts, then yelled up asking if he should be cleaning the gear. I said yes and he started cleaning. Maybe my fault for assuming he knew what to do... On our way out the nuts were gone, apparently some guys had grabbed them on their way down. I definitely blame my friend for that, not the guys who took them. Would have been nice to get them back but hey, got some new nuts out of it when we got back down.

[Kameron]

iPhone 7 found on the Ingraham glacier, maybe 40' off the route, as I was skiing by. I stopped to check it out, must've been there a week or so. It didn't turn on but did once I charged it at home. I left it on for a week, no calls, posted here and on TAY. I guess the owner had moved on. BOOTY

Edited October 18, 2019 by Kameron

[Rad]

1 hour ago, JasonG said:

What about a bolt ladder on something that hasn't seen a free ascent,  like on Monkey Face?  We encountered this at Smith in 2003 without a note or sign anywhere around to indicate someone was working the route.  No ropes, no chalk, not a soul around, but new draws on every bolt.  I realize this might be hard to believe in this day and age.

One person's bolt ladder is another person's free climbing project: NOT BOOTY.

Bolt ladder leading up to the Kompressor on Fitz Roy: BOOTY. 

[ivan]

anything i find if it's remotely near my birthday => booty  

[G-spotter]

Professor, what's another word for pirate treasure?

Where is kevbone with that picture of Venus Williams' butt? Cause that was BOOTY

[ScaredSilly]

There is climbing culture and there are civil laws ... one might to read up on the later before spewing about the former.

[crackers]

16 hours ago, G-spotter said:

Professor, what's another word for pirate treasure?

Indeed. 

[Kameron]

13 hours ago, ScaredSilly said:

There is climbing culture and there are civil laws ... one might to read up on the later before spewing about the former.

"Lost property" versus "Mislaid property"

[Rad]

13 hours ago, Kameron said:

"Lost property" versus "Mislaid property"

Abandoned property. Climbers usually only leave gear mid-route when they are retreating.

My partner and I bailed off Gorillas in the Mist a few years ago when we got off route up high in the face of approaching wet weather. We rapped down complex, overhanging terrain in the dark, leaving multiple nuts, slings, and carabiners. We split the cost of the gear we left behind. It's loss was a small price to pay for safely getting off the route.  It didn't occur to me then, and doesn't now, that we might ask future parties to collect our abandoned gear and return it to us. That seems like a very entitled attitude. Whoever finds these things is welcome to keep them. If that person chooses to search for the owners because that's what they want to do, then that's their prerogative.

In another example, I inadvertently left my helmet high on the corkscrew trail on Sloan when Brandon and I unroped to scramble for the summit after climbing Diamond in the Rough. A few years later, I was communicating with another Sloan climber and learned that he had found my helmet and brought it down the mountain.  He kindly offered to return it, but at that point I had chalked it up as lost for good and had replaced it. I told him he could keep it or pass it on to someone else who could use it. 

[Szyjakowski]

On 10/17/2019 at 4:15 PM, G-spotter said:

Professor, what's another word for pirate treasure?

Where is kevbone with that picture of Venus Williams' butt? Cause that was BOOTY

Why I think its booty... booty.... that’s what it is....(-beastie boys sample ca. 1990s)

I have friends that have/had entire racks composed of found gear. What’s funny is some of the gear was found at the base of crags or mountains.... 

Whatever one thinks, the longtime accepted method in the climbing world is: if you abandon gear whichever way it happens, then it’s abandoned and you chalk it up as experiencing an adventure or epic or keep it silent due to self embarrassment.  
 

If you think it’s stealing, then that implies it was taken from private property. Last time I checked most crags and mountains are on public property. So I suppose you are stealing from the public domain when/if you collect found gear or really you’re stealing from the government overlords who control us.
 

All hail the king and return your booty or be subjected to the 3 days in the public square pillory. (Insert appropriate emoticon here). 
 

have a great day!

Edited October 19, 2019 by Szyjakowski

[JasonG]

2 hours ago, Szyjakowski said:

(-beastie boys sample ca. 1990s)

@G-spotter beat you to that one!

It basically boils down to.... Booty being in the eye of the beholder

[DPS]

I bootied a brand new # 0.75 Camalot C4 and a couple of carabiners off of Stuart and posted here to find the owner.  Not finding the owner, I climbed on it until getting off route on the Ice Cliff Arete, got it stuck and ended up lowering off it.  The mountain giveth, the mountain taketh.  It's probably still there for all I know.  

[Szyjakowski]

On 10/19/2019 at 9:12 AM, JasonG said:

@G-spotter beat you to that one!

It basically boils down to.... Booty being in the eye of the beholder

What? I was answering the question and quoted the samplers. 

BTW- remind me to write up a TR for an unreported FA of the east face of The Professor, Cashmere Crags (9-2004 -?).
Dan and I climbed the main face right up the middle to summit blocks. 5-6 pitches at 5.10+ A1. Aid was only for about 6 inches when I thought I was stuck in the summit chimney....

we called the route “why, i think it‘s booty”

[JasonG]

1 hour ago, Szyjakowski said:

What? I was answering the question and quoted the samplers. 

Oops.  Carry on then.

Yes, please write up that ascent @Szyjakowski!

[G-spotter]