max

When I climb offwidths, I just wear a pair of saw chaps. And nothing else.

quote: Originally posted by rayborbon: Hey max you dont even know about this crag do you? It seems you think you know all about washington climbing 'cause you hear yourself yabbering so much. Thing is, you don't realize there are quite a few (relatively silent) people out there who hear you and know enough to see you're full of shit (reference CrackBolter's comment above). Of all the disgusting disease, diareah of the mouth is the worst. and yes, I do know about this crag. Tried to scope it (ok, from the car) about a month ago. What, you think I never make it back to WA?

quote: Originally posted by Crackbolter: Mouth just can't stop moving, hands cant stop typing. Amen.

I'll second what allison said. It's probably not worth it. A few other things to consider: -The availability and quality of outdoor related materials. Most of the fabrics you'll find only look like they should be used for outdoor gear. Often they're pretty low quality and fall apart ("I spent a week sewing this and it just fell apart!") Many of the plastic parts you might want (toggles, sliders, snaps, clip-locks, web patches, etc) will either be impossible to find or of poor quality. The binding you'll get at JoAnn's sucks. A solution to this problem is going to one of the specialty fabric stores in SEA, but then you've spent $5-8 bucks on gas and at least another $15-30 (if you work for slave wages!) in time. In the end, it's going to be more expensive. -Outdoor fabrics (even the crappy ones) are very hard on sewing machines. Unless you've got an industrial machine and KNOW HOW TO USE IT, you're probably going to cause some serious wear and tear and/or break your machine (high chance). Just sewing two layers of web and a couple layers of ripstop is pretty hard on most machines on the market these days. -Do you consider you're sanity worth anything? If you do, don't try building even a simple, nice pack from scratch. I've spent quite a bit of time screaming, groaning, and throwing shit cause I couldn't visualize the right pattern shape to make a good shoulder curve or I just spent twenty minutes pinning and sewing three panels together with the middle one backwards. -Three words: Absolutely no warranty. Jansport/SchoolGear/Walmart brand stuff is pretty crappy, but I bet you 50/50 it last longer than you're first project. And all you're left with is a pile of threads. I've said "no more" to complicated sewing projects and any more, only sew stuff sacks and harnesses for my friends (just joking).

I had lost hope and disengaged my interest in this thread by the time I noticed it's decay into the classic cc.com form. It's really hilarious!

So to keep the ball rolling here, I'd like to see a list of the top five to ten routes most deserving a chop. Be specific in what route, what bolts, and why. Once the list comes out, we'll see if anyone has a beef and can support their complaint.

Let's quit all this name calling, slandering, and subjective arguments. Let's try to get some CONSTRUCTIVE and OBJECTIVE ideas out. I'll start. 1. No future retro-bolting w/o first acsentionists nod and any route that has been retrobolted in the last five years w/o first ascentionist's ok gets yanked. Lets get a poll on this. If people are serious about "cleaning up" the icicle, they need to do so in an objective way. Otherwise, their simply a lynch mob! As for my opinoion, I'd love to see fewer bolt in the icicle and I've climbed routes before and after retro-bolting that seriuosly loose thier character w/ sissy bolts. But I sure as hell don't want some bull-headed, self rightous grumpy-pants deciding what gets pulled (no names mentioned!) Lets try to cut the crap and address this issue like adults. As stated above, this means we need to establish some objective rules for placing and pulling bolts.

quote: Originally posted: How can anyone possibly claim one person is the "best rock climber in the world," [?] Ever hear of the Well Ordered Set Theorem? First, lets address the issue of regarding someone as "bad-ass" and the whole mis-conception of "who cares what other people are doing and who's a climbing great." There are many people on this board that have expounded on the achievements of our own fred becky and all those canadian hard-types that have done awesome things. There are people on this board who have themselves been at the leading edge of cascades climbing, if not climbing in general. I'd say most people here look to these people and say, "wow! they're climbing hard shit! They're doing cool stuff." We may not go as far as "I wish I could do that/be that hard/be that effortlessly cool", but I'd bet many of us use these people as ... (oh my God!) role models! (I know it's scandalous to suggest the beer drinking, womanizing, "I-climb-hung-over-cause-I-don't-give-a-piss-what-you-think", raucous band of "locals' on this board are interested in what's going on outside of the "Mighty Cascades") Anyways, this "community" has it's leaders and high achievers, and most people are in some way influenced by them. The point is: everybody has people they look up to. And I say great! Role models are valuable in continuing development. So why Lynn hill? I think Lynn hill's best attribute is the style in which she climbs. OK, I'll admit I don't keep 24-7 watch of her accomplishments or even her style, but from the sample I have of he rstyle compared to the sample I have of the greater climbing communities style, she kicks ass! She consistently climbs hard shit, trad and sport, and from what I've heard from her, she's relatively low key about the whole thing. In addition to her "climbing philosophy", she simply moves with style. I think someone who climbs a 5.10 and makes it look fun and easy is much better of a climber than someone who grunts and flails their way up a 5.12. I've seem videos of Lynn climb 5.12's with amazingly smooth motion and obvious control. Second, Lynn hill has been pushing climbing for many years. She's got quite a list of firsts, and her progress isn't just a flash in the pan. I'll admit I can't name of the list now, but I remember seeing her name in quite a few places in the RR guide, I've heard she was a leader in the Gunks for a while, and I'm sure there are plenty of places I haven't even heard of that she's put up routes. Finally, it's undeniable she is gorgeous! She's buff and just has a natural beauty! WOW! Above all, Lynn Hill's greatest attribute is her style. I know it might be a stretch for some of the hangover hardmen out there, but I think Lynn Hill deserves high regard form the climbing community. [ 04-16-2002, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: max ]

Another thing I think is worth mentioning: Reviewing someone actions w/o judgement (it seems most critiques offered so far have been pretty non-judgemental) with the purpose of improving our own methods is much more appropriate and mature than reviewing others actions and mocking them, for the sole purpose of a good laugh and feeling important (e.g. "mountaineers suck", "I saw a bunch of gapers", "he was doggin his way up a bolted 5.8", etc.)

quote: Originally posted by AlpineK: I would say that climbing is an individual sport. We all have our own goals and thus our own role models. Therefore I find having a debate about who's bad ass to be silly; something that should be in People Mag. (or R&I) Lynn Hill is no doubt a good climber, but this debate is stupid. Definately. It's kind of like arguing about what restaurant is the best. It all depends on what kind of food you like.

Slab! Love it! I guess I just claimed to go for the face stuff, but I'll augment my vote with a "slab". And about the lack of lines: yeah, anything that doesn't have a line of bolts and requires a little testicular fortitude seems to keep the crowds and gapers to a minimum. The thing that's so great about slab is the concentration, especially runout slab. One thing I'm not so hot about slab climbs is that they often have obnoxious bolts, especially the new slabs. Too many bolts. I think slab is anything that has very few positve holds or jams for the hands. The key word here is positive. Bad hands = squeeky feet and sweaty palms! I used to hang out with a very sport-oriented climber. He called anytning less the vertical "slab"

yeah, what dberdinka said, for now. It seems his analysis fulfills the burden of proof to a suficient level. I'll go with what he said unitl someone make a refutation.

VFA = vector force analysis? = veterans of foreign aberations? = vertically formulated articulations? WTF? I'll bite. [ 04-15-2002, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: max ]

quote: Originally posted by rayborbon: Yep most of those cracks are face climbs in disguise. BUT they are gear climbs Gear protected face climbs are my favorite. Best of both worlds.

quote: Originally posted by erik: ahh i have bever had an issues with yo's down at smif......i just love to watch all the little guys driven by numbers reducing their level of fun and the level of fun around them with their desire to be the skiinest hard crankin mofo out there...... I like this. Just a few days ago I was lamenting with my pal that people would rather have their name printed in the guide book next to some stupid climb with big numbers than an athetic, funb climb with low numbers. And that's sad. I think this big number attitude is what's behind ugly bolting and poor style. Speaking of the weekend... After work friday headed up boulder canyon with the above mentioned pal and did a AWESOME 3 pitch .9... It was so good I came back the next morning and did it again with another frined (rare for me to want to repeat a climb...) Bitty buttress. Awesome. Did some other great climbs in Dream Canyon, then at twilight, went and scoped Cosmosis (ruined my chance at a on-sight flash free red attempt). I'll try and muster some photos of this route... another awesome looking climb! later

quote: Originally posted by allison: ...but whatever you do, make sure if you are using Spectra webbing that you do not attempt to make knotted runners out of them. This webbing is too slippery to hold a knot, and must be sewn. I've heard (and I do it) that it's ok to ty spectra w/ fisherman's knots.

quote: Originally posted by pope: ...I've noticed a large number of climbers who attach a quick-draw to almost every piece they place, regardless of whether the route is weaving around, left to right, or whether they've placed pro under an overlap. That's a great way to create rope drag, or worse, your pieces (especially cams) may become destabilized by rope movement. I think I'm misunderstanding you. You're saying draws clipped to pieces make them less stable and create rope drag? I doubt this is what your saying, but I'm still curious.

As to CO2 concentrations... http://amath.colorado.edu/courses/2350/2002Spr/HW/industrialCO2.jpg This is ruthlessly ripped from "Climate Change 2001: The Scientific Basis" published for the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change by Cambridge University Press. Yeah, it's not warming, but it sure looks like industrialization has influenced co2 levels. As to who to believe: I believe people with more research experience in the field. All the researchers I've talked to (I'm in a math/atmospheric science grad program) seem to say global warming is here and humans are playing a statistically signifigant role in it. Peer review. Data and interpretations don't get published in the big journals without some serious scrutiny. BS doesn't fly.

I had a shitty expereince w/ the Seattle REI. I forgot to take a bunch of tcu's out of my pocket when I left, and some meat-head dude got all upset! I's like, "dude, take a chill! I was planning on paying for 'um" He was such a stress ball!

Hey out of curiousity... Do you know why it was closed?

This is just barely related and doesn't warant it's own topic... A few days ago I made a new cordalette and was annoyed at not being able to effectively melt the frayed ends. My solution: P-Tex. The spectra/kevlar/what-ever the hell that stuff is wicked up a SMALL drop nicely and created a clean and compact "seal". For the non-sliders: P-Tex is available at any decsent (ha ha) ski shop.______________________________________________I know it's only Wednesday, but that almost twice as close as monday!

The Leavenworht guide can be a little fishy trying to figure out top ropes... Obviously not comprehensive and maybe not applicable to what you can/want to do, but here are some suggestions: Climb the well bolted 5.8 on the front of Grand central tower. three .10-.11 slab topropes from there. Climb Potholes (5.7, well bolted) and toprope potholes (direct) direct, washboards (.10c ?) with a directional. Make a slightly spooky traverse (5.0, no rope) to the top of Austrian slab and climb any number of slabs .9-.10c (?) Climb some (lame) route to the top of Orchard rock and tr the 5.0 slab or the .10b hand/fist crack. Don't bother with the climbs on the se face/chimney. Junk. It is possible (but really crumby and sketchy) to walk to the top of some of the climbs on Sunset, but it sucks. Peshastin might not be the best place for topropes. 1. Topropes piss people off and (at least a few years ago), Peshastin can be pretty crowded. 2. There just aren't many climbs that are both condusive to top roping and worth climbing at peshastin. In my opinion there's more and better tr'ing to be done in icicle canyon or vantage. Obviously expect to deal with some yahoo's in the icicle. Hit vantage early in the morning, drink and raid un-attended coolers in the afternoon, then hit sunshine again for a plesant sunset. I don't have a good idea of what you're looking for or what your abilities are, so sorry in advance for any insulting/useless/self-glorifying spray. Oh yeah, make sure to have a good time!

I like what matt said. I'd like to add a related comment. People in front have the ability to influence the safety of parties below via rockfall and "time-issues". If a lower party is unwilling to accept these risks, they (generally) have the option of bailing. When a party asks to pass another, they implicitly ask "are you willing to accept the risk of being below us?" I don't think it's generally right to force this risk upon others, even if the passing party thinks they're faster and safe enough to pass. All this is pretty theoretical. Pratically, I thikn it's just how agressive you want to be (both as a passer and a pass-ie) and trying to avoid the easy classics. Finally, I like the cc references. We followed a super slow party on that route. To make it even worse, the in front of us pissed on me! Serious. I don't know what the hell he was thinking. I got back at him though by sending him down a 85+ rap on a 160 rope! And I think he had to take a shit or throw up too, cause he was in a real hurry to get off. We rapped past him as he was trying to fix his mess.

Yeah! Now we're talkin'!

I appreciate the witty and well composed contributions of Dwayner. He's funny. [ 04-08-2002: Message edited by: max ]