JasonG

My experience is that the avalanche reports aren't all that accurate. I've been surprised several times when I shouldn't have been, if you had believed the report. Therein lies the problem. The data you're trying to use to come up with your risk calculation isn't at all precise, but you're treating it like a point value. I'm not talking about either extreme of the scale, which is often pretty accurate, but the middle ground where several avalanche professionals die each year. It's not a simple math equation you can stake your life on.

Thanks @W, powerful.

I probably should start backing up my raps. Thanks for the reminder. Loose rock has claimed two solid partners and almost got me this past year. At least a rap back-up could help me on the way down. And, I should add that I read ANAM and try and be safe about timing/routes/strategy/etc., but I've seen enough crazy stuff over the years (and had a number of close calls) that I have no illusions that I'm making alpine climbing really that safe.

But are any of you going to stop alpine climbing because of some back of the envelope calculation? I won't at least. The estimates of risk for any outing/route on any given day are wild SWAGs, at best, and quite unconvincing for me to give up something that has provided so much color to my life. Too many variables, too little data. For sure I've dialed back the "risk" or whatever over the years, but I think I'm mostly just deluding myself. Watching my old relatives linger and die over the years convinces me that no end is great, so I may as well enjoy it. My family wouldn't be that surprised, including my kids. I've had enough partners die and been involved in mountain rescue long enough that death isn't an uncommon topic in our house. I think the bigger issue is whether or not you believe this life is all there is. The spiritual dimension is much more compelling than statistics, at least to me. When it is your time, it is your time. Death is coming for us all.

Alex's was good, but predictable. I found this one on Dean a bit more complicated, as it sounds like he was: http://time.com/3891093/dean-potter-cedar-wright-climbing/

A good perspective @dberdinka, thanks. But I didn't get the sense the Marc cared terribly what anyone thought of his achievements? He seemed genuinely stoked on the adventure and wild positions he realized his abilities and approach could take him. Isn't it central to your premise that the praise pushed him farther than he would've pushed himself otherwise? Maybe I'm just a wimp, but even in my younger days fear was a powerful motivator that blocked all else out. Unless it was actually fun/reasonable for them (even if only in their minds), I can't see Marc or Alex or any of these guys pushing the boundaries as hard as they do. But maybe I'm just naive.

Just don't be sad or surprised. Bob would hate that.

And this is why we love you @glassgowkiss. Even if we sometimes talk past each other.

Wow. My palms were sweating reading it. Family, exposure, nightfall, gear anchors, no light. Yowza. Glad it all worked!

BOOM! @jon AND @olyclimber BRING BACK THE GOLD! Long live the mighty Cascade Climbers!

I think this is where the the argument never ends. Most people have their mind games that they play to convince themselves that they understand the risks of their particular activity and are making sound decisions. The rest look on and say that you're a crazed adrenaline junkie/addict. No matter the activity, if it is more risky than driving to work and sitting at a desk, many are going to judge, based on their own experience and biases. But at least this debate beats actual work!

I only climb 5.11 R in my head space too.

I'm curious, do you consider wind an "objective hazard" in your paragliding @glassgowkiss? I understand you have sideboards as to when you'll take off, but it seems like it isn't totally within your control either.

I've come to this conclusion as well @CascadeClimber. Ironically, part of what got me there was watching @Jens and @Alex simul past me and my partner at breathtaking speed on the upper NE buttress on Slesse many years ago. With the right skills, things that I consider insane can be casual. It's somewhat a matter of perspective and ability.

This is my experience as well @Off_White. I've lost rock solid partners to situations where it just as easily could have been me. Thanks for those words @JensHolsten, I agree that there are some things we just won't understand this side of veil.

That ST thread is a heartbreaking read.

I'm glad that nobody knows the real risk of heading to the hills, riding you bike to work, etc.. Because, for lifers, quitting isn't much of an option either. The older I get the more I appreciate the days where nothing goes wrong and as Marc said "the magic is real". There is a lot can can and will go wrong in this world, so all of the day to day blessings (health, family, friends, adventures, etc.) I find my self more and more thankful for.....

I think mostly this argument boils down to thinking you know what is going on inside someone else's head. Either a climber or some person typing a message on the internet. That, and none of us like being reminded that this life isn't going to last forever. Maybe because, for many, it raises deeper questions that we typically try to ignore.

NW(B)S!

Pyramid is a mellow walk up the south side after you wrap around from the climber's path. Quite a grunt in a day, but doable. Don't overlook Sourdough. It's a great outing that doesn't have anyone on it in the snowy time of year. A steep snowy hike pretty much. Also, Davis Peak can be done without rope. There is a steep step that you may not like, depending on your comfort level. All of the above have avalanche issues in the winter/spring so be careful!

Thanks @rat!

Beautiful. There is no way I could have pulled myself away from the powder laps!!

Isn't it more fun to figure it out yourself with a map @DruZovich? Or, is that just me?

You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope some day you'll join us And the world will be as one

You're pretty much guaranteed to break both legs falling on low angle terrain with crampons. If you survive, it would make for a fun crawl until you slowly die of exposure.....all by yourself in the winter. No thanks.