jon

The script on the front page and the active25 don't include spray, this was done per user request. Only Active40 includes the spray. So when threads are moved to Spray it could give the appearance of being deleted if you aren't looking at the Active25. Testy little foulmouth? I'm pretty sure it's not the scripts fault that you are a complete dumbass... just joking. And I'm definately not little.

True dat Caveman, I've got one!

You stupid fuck click on the spray topic and look a couple threads down from this one. Voala there they are!!!

We might have to have a pub club at the Deschutes Brewery.

http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/000131.html

Luckily we've got cutting edge technology here so we can even put up photos.

Hippy!

I'm one of probably many here who read the mags, Climbing and Rock & Ice. My subscription to Climbing just ran out and I'm wondering if I want to renew it. Fact of the matter is they write about a lot of stuff that I will either never be able to climb because it is too hard or I'll never have the chance to visit. It's still cool to read from time to time but I'm getting sick of hearing about how so and so can climb V50 and spent a month trying to send 5.16, or how someone did something so fast and so scary that I wouldn't want to do even if it was in my skill set. Personally I think it's starting to taint our sport/hobby/pastime/etc. So... I've received a few articles from a couple people (I'm really bad at managing my inbox so I'm not even how many), one of whom is Mr. Beck who has some cool skiing articles that are going to be posted shortly. There are obviously some people here who have been climbing for a long time and have stories to share about an adventure/misadventure, or a favorite route whether trade or obscure. I think it would be really cool for you to share you stories of your first ascents and long ambitous trips. I'd much rather read these stores by the ordinary weekend warrior of things that I might actually be able to do instead of things I won't. So if you like this idea, respond to this thread to encourage those that have great stories to share. If you've got a story to write, send us an email and we'll put it up. Jon

I wasn't trying to start an arguement about what method of belaying is better. Before I got my Reverso I was using a Trango tube for like 8 years and it worked, but I thought it would be refreshing to try something else so I did and I liked it better. Maybe I'm just a sucker to Petzl's marketing genious because I got a new harness, a Tikka, and Tibloc too all which I like and were replacing old gear. I'm going to try this whole thing out for myself and see how simple I can make it. The USMGA while informative is a little complex, I don't want to be sitting at the belay for 20 minutes rigging when all I want to do is lower my partner a few feet. Thanks to all that provided good info.

Who me?

quote: Originally posted by sexual chocolate: So think about that as you're working at your dumb engineering job, behind your desk, wondering what the hell you did wrong. I'll be happy, 'cause I'll be Moondancing, FOREVER. Dumb engineering job eh, why don't you tell people where you work at and what you do.

Right Beck, that's what I said above, but after you load your prussik you have to be able to unload it somehow. Thats where the load releasing hitch comes in which is on the prussik.

I pretty much do the same as Dave, girth hitched daisy on the harness and clove hitch rope preferably into seperate anchors and sometimes depending on exposure add and additional sling just in case things really hit the fan, this is on sport of course. Using the Reverso I belay of the anchor, or at the very least set up a directional so I'm getting pulled up through the anchor instead of down. Any guides know what the "approved" method is? I see some people at the sport crags using only the one daisy at the top of the anchor, sometimes not even clipping through both anchors or staying tied into the rope when feeding the chains. I've seen it done if one bolt pops the person is taking flight or misclipping the rope and dropping it, which I find really irresponsible. A couple months ago at Smith this person came up a route next to me as I was about to come down and although they led the thing she had not a clue how to anchor in and set up the rappel, and didn't really have the gear to do it either. I spent 10 minutes talking her through it so she could get down. My motto is you can never be too carefull and a redundant system is the key to that. Hey Ima, do you guys teach this at VW for people who weren't taught this by the sales guy at REI who sold them their new gear?

Yesterday evening the Interior Appropriations Conference Committee agreed to a compromise that will extend the Recreation Fee Demonstration Program by an additional two years. The "test" program, originally set to terminate in 1999 had been extended twice prior to last night's congressional action. The program was to have expired on Sept. 30, 2002. Yesterday's decision by Congress was a major, though not unexpected, set-back to the large and growing anti-fee-demo movement --- a movement consisting of 230 organizations and millions of Americans in all 50 states (see http://www.freeourforests.org/opposition.html) Most interesting is the fact that since the September 11th terrorist attacks on New York and Washington DC, the Secretary of Interior, Gale Norton, and both leaders of the House Resources Committee has taken actions to create opportunities for Americans to "reconnect" with their public lands in these tense times. Ms. Norton pronounced that Veteran's Day 2001 will be a FEE-FREE weekend at all of America's National Parks. Similarly, Rep. Hansen (R-UT) and Rep Rahall (D-VA) introduced legislation to issue FEE-FREE "Hope Passes" to the families of victims of the Sept. 11th terrorist attacks. Congress does appear to, at some level, understand that the charging of recreation user fees has created an impediment to the enjoyment of America's public lands. Congress, unfortunately, does not seem to understand that all Americans would derive benefit from being able to visit their National Parks and Forests and to reconnect with nature and to regain their rootedness in the soil of our nation. With Congress appropriating scores of billions of dollars in support of the War Effort, to shore up the airlines and to "jump start" the economy, Congress should eliminate access fees to ALL PUBLIC LANDS as the right thing to do at this time! Such a gesture would have two major and immediate benefits. Eliminating entrance and user fees would allow many more Americans to reconnect with their nation's public lands. Eliminating entrance and user fees would help jump start the outdoor recreation and tourism industries and would provide a large financial boost to the economy of this nation. I urge everyone to encourage Congress to ELIMINATE ALL ENTRANCE AND USER FEES for access to all of America's Public Lands immediately and to appropriate an additional $200 million dollars a year to compensate the land management agencies for the revenues that will be lost by the termination of the recreation fee demonstration program. The benefits to the American People are worth far more than the $200 million that such a gesture will cost. Scott ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Scott Silver Wild Wilderness 248 NW Wilmington Ave. Bend, OR 97701 phone: 541-385-5261 e-mail: ssilver@wildwilderness.org Internet: http://www.wildwilderness.org ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I figured you or someone had talked to the Petzl rep about this. Obviously the device can't be perfect, it surely is the best I've used. Hitching a sling to the free biner like you described was one of the things I had though of, I just haven't tried this and wasn't sure how much weight was required to do this, luckily I'm pretty fat so I just have to use a little body weight The other thing I though of is a bit crazy but if you had the gear and were desperate could work, which is to set up a prussik on the rope going down to the follower with a load releasing hitch, load the prussik unloading the Reverso like you described and switch the device to a normal belay, then reload the Reverso using the load releasing hitch. Kind of complicated but I guess it's something to think about in case you get in real big jam.

The daisy chain arguement got me thinking about this. I've been using a Reverso for a while now and I really like it. It gives really nice smooth rappels, good action on the belay, and being able to belay from the achor easily with the locking feature kicks ass for rope management. The only can only think of one drawback though, which is kind of a trade of inconvenience for safety is if you are belaying from the anchor and for some unforseen reason the follower has an accident and you need to lower them. With the rope weighted I'd imagine that it would be a little hard to get any action out of the Reverso with out cranking down hard on the free biner, and even so I'm not sure how much you'd get. Has anyone played around with this? Did I not read the instructions carefully enough? If you got in this situation how would you set up a system to lower your partner from where your at?

Spud looks like a good climbing partner man, if you get stuck and run out of food you can just eat the sucka!

Here is an email I just got from Scott Silver. Note that I will be moving all Fee Demo related discussion to this new forum. Jon ------------------------------------------ Opposition to fee-demo within the climbing community is steadily mounting. Pasted below, for example, are the comments of the Kentucky-based Red River Gorge Climbers' Coalition on Rec. Fee-Demo. It's nice to see so many additional organizations coming out against fee-demo and encouraging their members to become actively involved in this issue. Its especially nice to see interest developing in the Eastern portion of the nation. Scott PS.... For those climbers and outdoor types who would like to discuss this issue online, there is an active fee-demo discussion taking place at the Cascade Climbers web site. To participate, go to http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=intro&default=1 and search for "fee demo". PPS.... the Access Fund's opposition to fee-demo can be read at http://www.accessfund.org/programs/programs_news_pr.html ------- begin quoted ------- http://www.rrgcc.org/index.php?action=view_article&article_id=64 © Copyright 2001 - Red River Gorge Climbers' Coalition - All Rights Reserved RRGCC - PO BOX 22156 - Lexington, KY 40522-2156 - RRGCC@RRGCC.org The Recreation Fee Demonstration Program Last April the Daniel Boone National Forest implemented a "fee for use," an overnight parking fee, under the 1997 Recreation Fee Demonstration Program. The money collected from overnight parking is being used to provide some improved services for forest visitors, such as better trash receptacles, trash removal services, and additional law enforcement. The Recreation Fee Demonstration Program was adopted as part of the 1997 federal budget package. This year Congress decides whether to make the Recreation Fee Demonstration program permanent or not. The RRGCC, the Access Fund, the Sierra Club, and many other groups, oppose the Fee Demo Program and encourage everyone to read more about the program, get the facts, decide for themselves and let their political representatives know how they feel. The Recreation Fee Demonstration Program was adopted as part of the 1997 federal budget package. The program was given an initial three-year life to test its applicability and benefit to agencies and public land visitors. The program was meant to supplement budgets and meet shortfalls from Congressional appropriations due to budget constraints. In other words, Congress decided to try a test. Forest visitors would be charged a fee, in some parts of the country to "enter" the forest, or in other parts of the country to "use" the forest in certain ways, such as camping overnight. These fees have been called fees for access (to enter the forest) and fees for use (for example, to use the forest to camp in). If these fees "worked" (i.e., gave land managers, such as the Forest Service, enough money to fill in the gaps in their budget) then they would go from being a test to being permanent. They are still in the testing stage and not considered "law" per se in some jurisdictions. In fact, in California where campers refused to pay the fee the court ruled in favor of the campers saying that the program is for "demonstration purposes" and did not have the force of a federally mandated law, yet. Until Congress makes the Recreation Fee Program permanent the court viewed the Fee Demo Program "voluntary" and therefore unenforceable. In fact, the Forest Service and other agencies view every fee paid as a vote in favor of the program by the American public and evidence to make the Fee Demo Program permanent, but only "unpaid" fees are registered as a no vote. Many people and groups, including the Access Fund and the Sierra Club, are opposed to the collection of fees from the American public to use or visit their own forests. Despite the obvious need for more money for our forests, many feel the correct solution is for Congress to give land managers more money collected from our taxes and not charge the American people twice for the same thing. The two main criticisms of the Demonstration Fee Program are: it is inherently unfair to people who cannot afford the additional fee, and it would allow Congress to continue to reduce the Forest Service's budget. This year Congress decides whether to make the Recreation Fee Demonstration program permanent or not. You can tell Congress what you think and whether you want to pay for public lands use and management through your already collected income taxes, or through use and entry fees collected in our forests. We think the better way is to have Congress stop reducing land management agency budgets and to increase funding for recreation and resource management programs, and sustain these improved funding levels in the future. What do you think? To learn more about why people are opposed to this program visit .www.freeourforests.org. Personal letters through regular mail are the best way to let congress know how you feel on this issue. To find your representative and their address visit a www.senate.gov. or www.house.gov. We will be posting more information on this issue. Click on "Access Issues" on our menu to read the Access Fund's position on the Fee Demo Program. ------- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Scott Silver Wild Wilderness 248 NW Wilmington Ave. Bend, OR 97701 phone: 541-385-5261 e-mail: ssilver@wildwilderness.org Internet: http://www.wildwilderness.org ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Just wanted to be the first to post.

I think my bike ride to work from Bellevue to the U district and back should be near the top of the list! Two hours a day of dodging women driving suburbans while talking on their f@cking cell phones.

In the next week we will be upgrading the message board to the latest and greatest version. It will include lots of new features and will be faster. There are a number of things you should know before we do this. -The new version will have private messaging but will use a different system. That means all old messages will no longer be accessable. Please copy any messages you want to keep to your computer.

I've had this cronic pain in both of my big toes for a couple of months. I've had turf toe a few times but nothing that has ever persisted this long. The shoes I usually crag climb in are 5.10 Moccasym slippers which have no support whatsoever, so I'm not surprised that I have pain, just wondering if anyone else has experienced anything similar.

Yes they rock! The most comfortable harness I've ever worn. Plastic gear loops kick butt. Only complaints, there are only two sizes and there isn't a good place to hook your chalk bag.

Whoa hold on here, Phil I think your confused. The whole point of not paying the Forest Pass is so they don't get the money, that is how they measure the success of the program in front of congress and what not, $$$$$$. They don't care about who is displaying them, all they care about is the mula. Isn't it illegal for them to sit by the cars waiting for you, in the same way it's illegal for the police to wait outside the bar waiting for cars to drive off.

I've updated the user submitted pictures on the main page. There will be more added in the days to come. Thanks to everyone who've submitted some awesome picts! I need to make a page for this somewhere, but here are some things that you can do to make the process a whole lot easier for us. 1.) Make sure the filesize is no larger than ~200kb. 2.) Include a captions so I don't have to make one up, I could get very creative. 3.) Include your last name at the front of the filename so it is easier to track with your email. 4.) If you can, crop out any whitespace left from scanning. Thanks, Jon