LostCamKenny

Fine, PP, but extrapolation between the two happens way too often for them to be too unrelated for this thread... ya feel me?

Or monkeys and a football...

Ya but rock climbing sure isn't mountain climbing. Are we splitting hairs here, PP?

I can imagine the look on the face of someone who was in that position

all fixed. Didn't Jim Bridwell say that the first rule of climbing is that there are no rules? I dunno anymore - this is a bad day for me with quotes

My impression with respect to the rhythm of the tugs is that they are supposed to mimic the number of syllables in the verbal commands. Someone please correct me if they have heard or been taught something different, but: 3 tugs means on-be-lay/off-be-lay (3 syllables) 2 tugs means climb-ing/climb-on (2 syllables) 1 tug means take (this comes from the follower only, of course) Sure, I agree that when a route meanders and the leader gets out of earshot tugs may be ineffective because of the rope drag. But I have done many winding routes where I went out of earshot from my follower, or when the wind was howling to loudly for us to verbally communicate, and when I got to my belay, set up my anchor and tugged three times to indicate that I could be taken off I was tugging with nearly all my weight (and I have a fat J-Lo ass), and my message was always received. Of course as Sherri pointed out it helps to have this worked out before you leave the ground

I get it that we're in the n00b forum here, but seriously, who are you leading that doesn't know not to pull on the leader? That's the first (or one of the first) things you learn when being taught how to belay the leader. You are far more trusting than I am if you are climbing with someone who tugs on the leader without the leader having tugged first. Sounds like these followers have other issues going on aside from good intentions becoming annoying and dangerous actions! And I'm right there with y'all in watching the movement of the rope: That's good attention to detail. For sure, if I'm not positive that my leader is pulling up the slack then they remain on belay until the rope is being pulled faster than I can comfortably pay it out. Of course that last statement applies mostly to routes that I can do in my sleep. If it's a route I've never been on before then the situation changes.

Glad you're still with us!!! How deep was the gaper? Ditto on the second part: roping up is useless if you don't know how to arrest a fall, and even if you can arrest a fall you still need to know how to pull them out!

What reason would your second have to tug on the rope unless you gave him/her the signal that you were secure and ready to be taken off belay?

Excellent point! Though if you make your anchor (and secure yourself to said anchor) before giving your tugs to indicate that you can be taken off belay, and use an autoblocker directly off the anchor to belay your second, then the only way the leader would feel the tugs is through the anchor itself, and thus there would be no way your second could pull you off balance - unless you set up a shitty anchor and all your pieces blew! OMG Plus, your belayer isn't going make any kind of tug until he/she knows that you are secure.

Holy cornices, Batman!

I hate whiteouts!

Too funny dude!

It rules because of: - the challenge - the risks - the rewards - the adventure - the friends - the location - the isolation - the exposure - the spraying - the gear - the bolts - the routes - the scenery - the fact that it isn't football, or baseball, or basketball, or soccer, or golf, or tennis or anything else involving the senseless manipulation of a ball!! Ken Purdy's Book of Automobiles had a character named Helmut Ovden, who was quoted as saying the following: "There are three sports - bullfighting, motor racing, and mountain climbing; all the rest are recreations." (Ovden is modeled after Hemingway and this quote is often mistaken as one of Hemingway's - as I had done) Yes, rock climbing definitely rules.

Oh yeah!!!

Definitely in favor of that one, Bill, but I believe - and someone correct me if I am wrong - that St. Helens and South Sister have passed up Hood as the second most climbed mountain in the world behind Fuji. Hood must certainly be the second most climbed technical mountain, but the walk-ups have passed Wy-east up.

No shit, huh? And for some reason whenever one of us gets all up in arms about our "little" issue someone else chimes in and basically tells us to shut the f&%k up. I'm with ya, Kevin! Take the lead... I'll belay ya!!!

Great pics!!! Nice work... Cheers!

I noticed that you didn't have a camera on your gear notes... No photo documentation of this ascent? No self-shot pics at arms length, or with a timer? No visual stimulation for the rest of us to ... over? I feel I have been slighted! How was the weather? Any wind?

Sucks about the camera...

All good info above... I only have this to add: Three tugs from the leader to say that he can be taken off belay and then three tugs from the leader to tell the follower that he is on belay... if the follower has excess slack, or wants to be held tight to clean a stubborn piece then one tug... Also, if you're going to use rope tugs you have to remember that in order to actually feel it on the other end you have to really yard on the rope - a casual pull will not be felt!

And all that stuff, too

Dude! Why is it that climbers seem to be the last ones to figure out that helmets are cool and helmet-less climbing is for dumb-asses? Biking, kayaking, skateboarding, football... they've all figured it out. If you don't cover your bean, your chances for death are significantly higher. There are so many light-weight helmets out there. You can still lather your tanned Adonis frame in olive oil, but get over your fear of helmet hair and protect your brain! I don't want to have to rescue your sorry ass when you get knocked unconscious in the name of looking good. ... oh... and I'd stick with 10mm+. 10.2 for me... cheapest one out there. 10.2 all the way! I've led on a 9.7 before that BillCoe sold to Kyle, only to find out after the climb from Kyle that 2 other IDENTICAL ropes went coreshot. This is completely unrelated to the current debate about >10mm or <10mm, but I have since sworn off ANY rope less than 10mm - unless I'm using twins then I have 8.1's - simply because the diameter scares the shit out of me. Silly, I know, but I still like thicker ropes. Light weight... meh. A climber ought to be able to carry ALL his gear - no matter the weight! As for the helmet talk, I'd rather look stupid at a single-pitch crag wearing my helmet then look dead because I wasn't wearing it. I don't care how long the climb is - helmet is the first thing to go on when I reach the base!