LostCamKenny

I heard the kid talk on Mark and Brian's retarded radio show last week and he seems to have it all together. It was interesting to hear him talk like an alpine veteran, and then I began to think that climbing everest isn't the accomplishment it used to be (not that I could ever dream of having the money to go there - or balls) now that anyone with the $$$ can go and do it. Still, the kid's got some skill - you can't survive the altitude and conditions on luck and money alone! Kudos to the kid!!!

Yeah, nothing like the sound of an old figure 8 clanking against biners and ATCs to woo you to sleep...

Sweet!!! The kid's sharp!

And who said I wanted to be off the climb before dark anyway?

Nice TR... Great shots, too!

Creatures of habit - good call!

Simpler anchors? This was quite simple, fox. Maybe you and Matt_warfield could come up with an AMGA certified anchor pic and demonstrate to the rest of us the err of my ways, not that you're diagram wasn't pretty. If so many disagree with my set-up then post a pic with one that is more acceptable... In that spot I made the best with what I had and what I had worked out really well. Besides, if it was a choice between what I set up and nothing I'd definitely do it again!

Definitely...

Funny that you say that... My headlamp batteries died and I had to change them because I couldn't see a thing! the whole thing took about five minutes. since I had to dig in my pack for fresh batteries!

A bit, perhaps... But not dangerously so. I'll give you that the angle between the two outside pieces is a tad wide, but it certainly is closer to 60 degrees than it is to 90 degrees. The angles between the left piece and the middle piece is beautiful, and between the middle piece and the right piece is also good. My anchors are three pieces - always (providing that I have enough placements for them) - and in my time building trad anchors never have I had a partner who thought it was unsafe. But, again, yes, the angle between the left- and the right-hand pieces is a bit wide. The middle piece is directional, however, and works to keep the right-hand piece in place.

Funny how that can be the case!!!

This anchor is made of two small cams and a hex (the piece on the far right). I have a 6mm cordelette statically equalized and I am tied into this, directly, using the rope and a clove hitch. Then there is a sling to which I have the belay rigged (autoblocker of course). In this case I am belaying my second up and he was coming up on my right and I was comfortably out of his way by being off to the left. Safe, simple, efficient, and effective... Not to mention bomber!

Ah ha, that's where the gap is... I have two copies, including the most recent edition, and my bro-in-law has the first edition (isn't that what you have, Jake), and I think that this topic doesn't appear in any of the more recent editions. Certainly, rope tugs have been used for quite some time, but it doesn't surprise me to know that it isn't in the 1960 edition of FOH. Cheers, Jake!

That's what I thought the quote was too, but when I went back to confirm my knowledge on the matter I was quick to discover that I was not wrong just inaccurate (so, wrong ) But I'm glad that someone sees my point on the sports vs. games comparison, here. What I was trying to say with that quote was that sports test ones will and the score is not a tally of numbers or points, but a test of life. And if one survives then one wins - likewise, if one dies then one loses. Games keep score with numbers, and one could argue that auto racing keeps a close eye on the stopwatch, but ultimately the driver's life is at risk, just as the matador's life is up against the bull and the climber's life (whether on ROCK, SNOW, OR ICE) is also at risk. The method of scoring in all three depends on whether or not death occurs.

Because they are communists!!!

Since climbing education comes from multiple sources and not just the literature I am willing to concede that I did not learn rope tugs from FOH, or John Long's book, but from listening to my elders, watching others when I have been out, and asking questions when I didn't know. Jake, I'd be surprised if a section about rope tug signals didn't appear in the next edition of FOH just because there are enough climbers who are aware of the practice - whether they use it or not (take belaying with a Munter, for example.. How many people are aware about that and how many use it? It's in FOH). Though just because it isn't in FOH doesn't mean that it isn't accepted (by at least some group) as a method of communication when you can't hear your partner. Perhaps we should all just carry handheld radios when the wind picks up - that works too.

It seems to me that I remember a situation where Opdycke had to stop and clean a piece of mine and I remember him doing the same thing. Two quick tugs... Two syllables... Hmmm... Coincidence? I'm gonna say NO.

Fine, PP, but extrapolation between the two happens way too often for them to be too unrelated for this thread... ya feel me?

Or monkeys and a football...

Ya but rock climbing sure isn't mountain climbing. Are we splitting hairs here, PP?

I can imagine the look on the face of someone who was in that position

all fixed. Didn't Jim Bridwell say that the first rule of climbing is that there are no rules? I dunno anymore - this is a bad day for me with quotes

My impression with respect to the rhythm of the tugs is that they are supposed to mimic the number of syllables in the verbal commands. Someone please correct me if they have heard or been taught something different, but: 3 tugs means on-be-lay/off-be-lay (3 syllables) 2 tugs means climb-ing/climb-on (2 syllables) 1 tug means take (this comes from the follower only, of course) Sure, I agree that when a route meanders and the leader gets out of earshot tugs may be ineffective because of the rope drag. But I have done many winding routes where I went out of earshot from my follower, or when the wind was howling to loudly for us to verbally communicate, and when I got to my belay, set up my anchor and tugged three times to indicate that I could be taken off I was tugging with nearly all my weight (and I have a fat J-Lo ass), and my message was always received. Of course as Sherri pointed out it helps to have this worked out before you leave the ground

I get it that we're in the n00b forum here, but seriously, who are you leading that doesn't know not to pull on the leader? That's the first (or one of the first) things you learn when being taught how to belay the leader. You are far more trusting than I am if you are climbing with someone who tugs on the leader without the leader having tugged first. Sounds like these followers have other issues going on aside from good intentions becoming annoying and dangerous actions! And I'm right there with y'all in watching the movement of the rope: That's good attention to detail. For sure, if I'm not positive that my leader is pulling up the slack then they remain on belay until the rope is being pulled faster than I can comfortably pay it out. Of course that last statement applies mostly to routes that I can do in my sleep. If it's a route I've never been on before then the situation changes.